h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Bean battles in France, ouais...oops, I mean oui; 'cos i am not a plouc.

Explication: "ouais" is equivalent of "yep" & i get told off for saying it 'cos "plooks" ie, peasanty type people use it. Pronounced "way" rather than "wee".

So, no Ouais out i suppose. When i text in french i often use pt, not peut être, but that could be interpreted as a fart.Maybe as a result of too many 'aricots?

zdt

Toybox, Historical seems to be a good example. I used it in my entry, and was told this:
>>It's a historic tram<<

>>It is an historic tram<<

Ok, no problems with that, to avoid all confusion, I changed it to 'traditional', and tried to find out when it is an h..., and when it is a h...but it doesn't look as if there are rules

But what level of understanding is required to post on the guide?

The rule poses the question of what age limit should be on the guide incase someone too young can't understand the posting as they could be too academic.

I can understand old english, another researcher on here clearly does because theres a guide entery on Chaucers 'the summoners tale' in peer review with no translation - to some that could be unintelligible. To quote one of the more elloquent students from last year - 'Its all jibberish'

I can see the point in the rule, but your forgetting two things:
1 - If you dont understand what someones saying in front of you after you make the effort, you dont carry on the conversation if they make no attempt to use the language you are using.
In other words, if you state that you dont understand txtspk, and if they continue to speak in it, then there's no conversation so no problem.
2 - The fact that language evolves constantly means that txtspk is eventually going to filter through into the written form and nothing is really going to stop that. That lol (laugh out loud), LOL (laugh out loud, although more loudly), or txtspk (the definition of the language). All are now excepted forms, not to mention asl which is more netspeak then txtspk.

And who decides whats unintelligible. Please don't try controlling language (the closing of threads and this rule are causing me much concern with regards to Hootoo and its future as a place for free thinking).


Would the mods ever consider over turning this rule if there was a valid arguement against it?

Just to be a pedant for a minute: Chaucer wrote in Middle English.

Old English is the language of the Dark Ages and Early Middle Ages, and is found in the likes of Beowulf and the Anglo-Saxon Chronicles. The High and Late Middle Ages use Middle English, of which Chaucer is likely the prime example. Early Modern English is the language of Shakespeare, and we speak Modern English today.

<<<>It's a historic tram<<

>>It is an historic tram<<

Ok, no problems with that, to avoid all confusion, I changed it to 'traditional', and tried to find out when it is an h..., and when it is a h...but it doesn't look as if there are rules>>>>


From Michael Swan's 'Practical English Usage':

"The choice between 'a' & 'an' depends on pronunciation, not spelling. We use 'an' before a vowel *sound*, even if it's written as a consonant. An hour...An MP.
And we use 'a' before a consonant *sound*, even if it's written as a vowel. A university...A one-pound coin.

Some people say 'an', not 'a' before words beginning with 'h' if the first syllable is unstressed.
An hotel (A hotel is more common.)
An historic occasion (A historic....is more common.)"

Thanks RE, so there are rules, but in the end, you do as you like anyway

Chaucers the earliest example of English being english on the written page iirc - french and latin were more common (those pesky french again).

But then again, with all these forms of english whats the intelligible standard?

You know me only too well!

It was but a wild guess

It is likely that txtspk will filter through into written language, but it would be tricky for it to come into use in spoken language since some txtspk is unpronounceable (I bet I spelt that wrong). Insteadwe get people who say stuff like 'innit' or 'wo'eva' which frankly is no better.

"Chaucers the earliest example of English being english on the written page"

Surely the Venerable Bede is your man there?

B

I shall consult my pesky French friends, one of whom got banned for squeaking frog on the late lamented "Let's parle Franglais" thread.

"pesky" appears to mean "fichu" which can mean all manner of things, come back Toy Box & start perd mutaining; i am far too "chiante" i think for this.

zdt

"perd" = a verb form of to forget
"mutain" = a sheep
"chiante" = a type of

(apologies if there are typoos)

<>

It depends on what you call English, as I said above. Beowulf and other Old English epic poems certainly predate Chaucer. It's true that at the time that Chaucer wrote the Tales, most everyone was writing in Latin or French, so Chaucer's work does stand out *at that time* for having been written in the vernacular.

Ditto the Bede.

And as language is a continual evolution, it is a pointless exercise to draw boundaries between Modern, Middle and Old English.

B

>Michael Swan's 'Practical English Usage':

I miss that book.

In a thousand years, what will people call the English we speak today? By then "Modern" will be laughable.

Sorry, I was just passing through.

Wandering off wondering.

Whether you say "an" or "a" before an "h" surely depends on whether the "h" is aspirated in its original form or not. At least, I've always been taught and followed that rule.

There's no set rule, you just have to learn which is which, like you have to learn what's feminine and what's masculine and what's neuter when you're learning a new language.

Last time we chewed this over in the Brit-Eng thread, Spiff had the best explanation. Maybe he'll turn up and put us straight.

Sorry - when I say in the 2nd paragraph above "there's no set rule", I mean there's no easy way of telling which "h"s are aspirated. At least, I've never heard of one that doesn't involve a comprehensive knowledge of Latin and Greek.

http://www.oed.com/about/facts.html

"pesky", isn't it a milder version of "annoying"?

As for "fichu", I think it is some kind of garment, a veil of some sort

Asmodaie Dark asked:

"Would the mods ever consider over turning this rule if there was a valid arguement against it?"

The 'Mods' have no say in the matter. Their job is to uphold the rules, not set them.

As I said earlier, the operative word is 'disruptive'. If you were to post in Old- or Middle-English in the middle of a conversation, then that could be interpreted as disruptive. It'd certainly be annoying for anyone who doesn't understand that particulraly archaic form of the language.

The rule really is to encourage people to make the effort to be understood, to avoid lazy txt-speak posts and to put a little effort into making messages worth reading (and worth storing, actually). There are literally thousands of places available on the internet for people to do A/S/L and 'fancy a chat?'; h2g2 is not a chatroom - it's something far more wonderful and strange.