h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well, I've been wondering whether to mention Coca-Cola. I may still do so,

Another point that concerned me was your etymology of "getting pissed" -
Well, it was probably the English-speaking visitors (e.g. missionaries) who described the natives as 'getting pissed'.

Reply


'Probably or you know for certain? '

I've modified the wording of this slightlyt to say that 'Some scholars maintainb that...'

Sounds better.

I've tried putting some sub-titles in, but I'm not sure how well they work as, for e.g. the red and white garb appears twice.

Hi, RBA!

I think this is a very entertainting and readable entry! Unfortunately, what you have made the whole point of the entry, the connection between the fly agaric and the flying reindeer/red coat/chimneys, seems more like a modern urban legend than a reliable piece of social history. You're very careful and thorough about any scientific evidence you use in your entries--I think you need to look at the historical evidence just as carefully. Before I'd believe this, I'd expect to see actual historical references and a definite timeline rather than the vague "Apparently, the story of flying reindeer spread south to central Europe during the 19th century; "

Some dates to consider:
Saint Nicholas of Myra was supposed to have lived before 500 AD: the legends about him seem to be of quite ancient origin, and one of these is that he dropped a sack of gold down the chimney to a poor family. This is likely to predate the contact of the Sami with Christianity by quite a few hundred years.

The first reference in print connecting Santa and reindeer appears to be the 1822 poem "A Visit from St. Nicholas" by the American Clement Moore (the famous "Twas the Night Before Christmas" poem). The Dutch legend carried to the USA by early settlers had Sinter Klaas in bishop's robes, on a grey horse. "Spreading to central Europe in the 19th century" is a rather doubtful pathway for the reindeer Santa if it first appeared in New York in the 1820s. Moore's Santa Claus is dressed in furs rather than red, so it's not even as if these two features of "toadstool santa" appeared at the same time.

Something which I only noticed on a second reading is that the whole shaman/yurt/chimney bit is referencing the Siberian Kolyak people rather than the Laplander Sami, which makes any possibility of cultural influence even more tenuous. The fact that for hundreds of years houses in Europe had chimneys that it was possible to climb inside seems a more likely inspiration than the hole in the roof of a Siberian yurt.

The entry is certainly very interesting, and I can see two different pathways to making it a first-class Guide entry:
--Widen the scope to include the full iconography of Santa Claus, including the fusion of Nicholas the bishop of Myra with various winter solstice pagan figures; the de-emphasising of the Catholic and Orthodox saint after the Reformation in both Britain and Holland, giving the more secular Father Christmas and Sinterklaass, etc. etc. As one possible influence among many, I'd have no problem with the toadstool Santa.
--Otherwise, retitle and change the focus to the Fly Agaric and all its influence through history, giving the *possible* Santa Claus connection as just one example. (I've always assumed that it's because of the hallucinogenic connection that the Fly Agaric is always the toadstool associated in pictures with gnomes.)


Azara

Yes, I think I will incorporate St Nicholos.

BTW I know the ending is still very weak. I'm continuing to play with words until I get it to say exactly what want - stiill, I've got a couple on months to get that right!

Just tried crediting Azara with the info about St Nicholas and reindeer but the ing 'Credit Tag' doesn't work as described in the instructions I'll fiddle with it some more later.

Thanks, RBA!

As far as I remember from the description of the new credits, there is some further mysterious twiddle that only the italics can do, so the credits only show up when the entry is Edited. (which I'm sure is bound to happen!)


Azara

Ha! Think I've managed it now, but you're not invisible (as I also had been led to believe). You've appeared on the right hand side under 'Referenced Researchers'

(1st time I've ever tried to use this Credits tag)

Wow.
Pertaining to the long and detailed history of St nocholas/his first appearances in poem etc.

Unless you intend to extend the entry to a huge, huge degree, i would advise that you go with the suggestion of changeing the title so that it is clear that this isn't the be all and end all santa claus story.

There are masses of theories, and several major/widely believed ones, and while your entry may be correct/plausible, there are others that are equally so.

Maybe change the title to include the fly alargic, eg 'The Iconography of Father Christmas - The fly Alargic theory' or whatever.

I still like it! and good luck with the ending

I've done that already, if you look.

I heard about this sort of thing a while ago, and I've always wondered how far the influence goes...

Your Guide Entry has just been picked from Peer Review by one of our Scouts, and is now heading off into the Editorial Process, which ends with publication in the Edited Guide. We've therefore moved this Review Conversation out of Peer Review and to the entry itself.

If you'd like to know what happens now, check out the page on 'What Happens after your Entry has been Recommended?' at EditedGuide-Process. We hope this explains everything.

Thanks for contributing to the Edited Guide!

'bout time

. But don't rush with it; I would like it on the FP over Christmas

for radioactiveBigAl!


Azara

I won't worry, BigAl - at the pace at which things are going through the Editorial Process at the moment, I'm pretty darn sure that your entry is going to hit the front page in Advent at the very least!

Paully

Well, I was going to say that I've got some Entries in PR that have been there for 3 or 4 weeks and nobody's noticed yet!

BigAl