h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I suppose 'fool' implies ignorant behaviour of some kind ...

Mmm, seems like a dilemna ... an interesting question to ponder ... and I don't know whether one should answer 'a fool' or not!

It probably depends on what the 'fool' is doing or saying ... it's probably often good to answer, if in no danger of becoming involved in ignorant conflict.
Having made one's point though, it's probably better thereafter NOT to answer

Just a thought!
Peace

The etymological foundation for the original word for "fool" in Hebrew is from "fat person", and, furthermore, there is no basis in saying Jews cannot be fools or non-Jews must be, according to Proverbs or the Old Testament generally.

Psalm 14 (aka Psalm 53).

It does *mention* eating... but I don't think that in the context 'fat person' makes much sense.

It would not remove the contradiction in the proverbs verse if that were the meaning - but it almost certainly isn't:
http://helpmewithbiblestudy.org/8Sin/NatureWhatProverbialFool.aspx

Gif

Mmm, I like the link Gif! Very wise

I agree with those saying that it's a dilemma rather than a contradiction.

The etymology just shows that fat people were regarded as foolish (we have similar notions today). My point was that your claim that non-Jews are the targets of such remarks, while no doubt true to some degree, is not the heart of the matter. Some Jews could clearly be regarded as fools by the writers of the Old Testament. My first reaction to the statement that "fools" means "non-Jews" was that it was probably motivated by anti-Semitism, and my local Bible expert's assistance with deciphering the passage you quote and putting it in context would seem to bear that out as a strong possibility.

Julzes, you should be a little careful before you go around making highly inflammatory comments like that.

If you have an explanation for this contradiction, or a reason to think that the authors of the OT did not describe non-Hebrews as 'fools', then go ahead and present it. But resorting to personal abuse against me is not going to get you anywhere.

Gif

Julzes and Gif,
Come on, calm down

From the point of view of a Believer in God Almighty, a disbeliever is 'a fool' in many ways.
Why? Because they turn down God's wisdom and guidance!
Peace

Giford: Well, it is accurate to say that Judaism was a proseltyzing religion initially; so I can't claim that the target wasn't non-Jews either. However, your insistence that the Proverbs citation is a contradiction--rather than a reasonably intelligent presentation of a dilemma--seems blinkered. There are plenty of contradictions in The Bible; you just picked a bad example. Making the assertion that non-Jews were the target is an inflammatory attack in its own right; it's unclear that just foolishness wasn't the target, and the particular word for "fool" here has nothing to do with religious affiliation.

proselytizing

Very well... I have removed the offending sentence (for anyone reading this later, it was the last sentence and read: 'A fool, by the way, means anyone who was not Jewish') since, as you point out, the Hebrew word translated as 'fool' here is different from the Hebrew word translated as 'fool' in the Psalms which specifically use it to mean 'unbeliever'.

But I will repeat that the assertion that this in some way makes me anti-Semitic is baseless and offensive. I might suggest that your 'local Biblical expert' finds it easier to launch personal attacks on people than to address the easily demonstrable fact that the Bible is derogatory to non-Jews, and calls them fools (and much, much worse - see Week 6: A51149018).

Gif

If there was an attack going, it was wholly my own and not my stepfather's, I assure you. Sorry if I have seemed overly offensive (or defensive of Jews). Had I known about the other word you refer to, I would have pointed out my quibble more gently.