h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Subcommandante: I read your reply next door, and thanks. I am posting here now, because I'd like to bring up topics that relate only indirectly to the "Third Way".

I have been giving this censorship issue a lot of thought lately, as have many of us. I think that your best point is that, with these restrictions, the community will dry up because of a sort of natural selection. There certainly exist online communities without the type of moderation we now have here. But those communities are not attached to DNA's vision of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy. This vision is what brought ME here, and it is what will keep me here.

I distinguish H2G2 the Guide from H2G2 the Community. I realize that there is a lot of overlap, and a lot of interplay, but the difference still exists, for me. I feel that I am participating in a different activity when I'm posting at Miscellaneous Chat than I am when I'm posting at Peer Review.

Without the Community, the fun energy which fuels the Guide would be significantly diminished, and without the Guide, the Community would be just another web hangout, with only a neat color scheme to distinguish it from some AOL dive.

Anyway, those who are here primarily for Community activities are those who are most susceptible to being driven away by the new restrictions. Those who are here primarily for Guide activities will find ways to live with the restricitons, albeit grumblingly. For this reason, I do not agree that h2g2 will become a complete 'ghost town,' although it has the potential to dry up quite a bit, which would be sad. The Beeb's 'experiment' with online communities would be a dessicated community, but still an excellent model of an interactive reference work!

I think that the "Third Way" is a way to save the Community by partially separating it from the Guide, but only as far as the viewing public is concerned. I am not convinced that it cannot be sold to the Beeb, if they are told that the part that they can think of as their "production" is the only part visible to the Queen's public.

I am curious to hear the thoughts of others regarding the Guide versus the Community, how they relate to each other, and what is required to sustain each.

GTB

GTB,

I didn't mean anything against you when I said "Hell, you signed there too." I just don't want people to think I'm a lone raving lunatic, when there are 130+ Zaphodistas who have signed to the same list of demands. I'm a raving lunatic in good company!

Funny, I haven't thought much about the divide between the Guide and the Community on h2g2. Ever since I had an entry accepted for the Edited Guide and then mutilated, I've been weary of it, wondering how many better, funnier, more interesting entries hide inside the unedited section.

I'm mainly here for the community, and reading the contributions of people that I meet on h2g2 fora. The Edited Guide occasionally grabs my attention, but if the only content here was the Edited Guide, I wouldn't visit more than once every month or two.

By the way that BBC wrote the ugly new House Rules and copyright junk with dollar-signs in their eyes (okay, sorry, Pound-signs?), it seems to me that they're interested mainly in the Guide. They want to be able to publish books of it if they feel there's a market for it later, or maybe CD-roms of our contributions, maybe sell our content to other websites that would value a bunch of quirky encyclopedia entries.

The Community underlying h2g2 must seem to BBC like a necessary evil, something that must be tolerated in order to get free content, a few gems in our slushpile of Guide entries.

I agree that h2g2 has something special in the character and atmosphere of this site. Something instilled by DNA and fed by the unique kind of people who are drawn to DNA's material. I'm just not sure if this unique character and atmosphere will be enough to keep people using a site where they can't even discuss politics.

"I am not convinced that it cannot be sold to the Beeb, if they are told that the part that they can think of as their "production" is the only part visible to the Queen's public."

That's the sticky part. I think they would feel that any connection with the sleazy, vulgar, common, unsanitized, free-speaking portion of our community would be seen as tarnishing the BBC's allegedly good image.

Anyway, why are you still hanging around the Brainstorming Board, where your ideas will be buried? Put your ideas on a guide entry, start a war, muster your army! I put a link from my latest addition, the rough draft petition, to this forum, and asked people to check out the post # where you spelled out your idea. If you put together a petition or manifesto or sing-along or anything you want to publicize, let me know and I'll give you some more links. You could also delicately publicize your manifesto on the Brainstorming board, because it's not spam if you can keep it on topic. I started publicizing the Zaphodistas by mentioning our movement on every forum where people complained about moderating. It's on-topic, because all those people are looking for a solution to the problem of BBC restrictions.

Meanwhile, I can spam you here too and tell you to check out the rough draft petition at http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A532702 and let everybody know if it sounds good or what ought to be changed.

Later,
Deidzoeb

I checked out the petition draft and posted my comments there. Here I would like to respond to your last, thought provoking post.

"Funny, I haven't thought much about the divide between the Guide and the Community on h2g2. Ever since I had an entry accepted for the Edited Guide and then mutilated, I've been weary of it, wondering how many better, funnier, more interesting entries hide inside the unedited section.
"I'm mainly here for the community, and reading the contributions of people that I meet on h2g2 fora. The Edited Guide occasionally grabs my attention, but if the only content here was the Edited Guide, I wouldn't visit more than once every month or two."

I didn't mean the Edited Guide per se, so much as the project of the Guide in general, but I guess I envision the Edited Guide really becoming something valuable to the Galaxy as a whole. I think we should aim to be "the standard repository of all knowledge and wisdom," and since this is the first comprehensive reference book (that I'm aware of) to even attempt to exploit the interactive nature of the Internet, I think we've got a shot at it.

So, there's a difference between us. I'm here to be a Researcher for the Guide; the Community is a bonus. If the only content here was the Edited Guide (and entries on their way into the Edited Guide) then I'd be just as enthusiastic as I am now.

"Anyway, why are you still hanging around the Brainstorming Board, where your ideas will be buried? Put your ideas on a guide entry, start a war, muster your army! I put a link from my latest addition, the rough draft petition, to this forum, and asked people to check out the post # where you spelled out your idea."

Thanks for the plug. I posted at the Brainstorming Board because I'm still brainstorming. I want feedback, and ultimately, I don't need an army - I just need the source code and a go-ahead from the Italics. I'm waiting at least until tomorrow to see whether Peta stands by her old position that my idea is too complicated, or whether she sees that I'm a serious programmer who is willing to take on the complicated part as a summer project. Mostly I want the Towers to actually think about my suggestion. They wouldn't risk anything by just giving me a chance, y'know.

I think now I'll post a message on the personal pages of the main h2g2 techies, pointing them to my "Third Way" post. Their technical opinions count more than anybody else's around here, since they KNOW the source code.

I encourage you to continue to develop and publicize the petition you've written. Why not put its A# in your nickname? That's a good, visible way to get attention.

Oh, BTW, A520769: 52+0-7+6-9 = 42

GTB

GTB,

You're right. I spoke too quickly about disliking the Guide aspect, when I really just meant the Edited Guide. I like the idea of h2g2 as an evolving resource, but I'm skeptical about the stamp of approval given to Edited entries. If I were seriously searching for a description of a city or restaurant in the Guide, I would by all means read the Edited entry, but I would check out as many unedited entries on the topic that I could find.

So if we talk about h2g2 in terms of three parts, the Edited Guide, the whole Guide, and the Community, then I'd be here for two out of three.

"I encourage you to continue to develop and publicize the petition you've written. Why not put its A# in your nickname?"

Rough draft petition. We're still brainstorming on that too.

Good luck with Peta and the techies. Thanks for the breakdown on the Zaphodista page "A520769: 52+0-7+6-9 = 42"