A Conversation for Amnesty International Petition

Executions

Post 21

The Cow

One of the problems with executions is that it's a very hard sentence to revoke. There are numerous examples in British history where someone who was exectuted has later been found to have been not guilty.

You seem confused by the law (or at least you've confused me...)

I believe we need to overturn the Supreme Court decision that outlaws executions ... except for cases where death resulted.
Under Georgia law, we have several capital crimes including rape, armed robbery and kidnapping.

So what exactly happens here, where it is a capital crime but is prevented by a supreme court decision?

Working out what to do with dangerous criminals is a grave problem: but I don't believe that murder is the solution.


Executions

Post 22

Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession

There is a Supreme Court decision in the US that basically concludes that each individual state is tasked with deciding whether or not to assign the death penalty to certain crimes. This decision was made in response to a murder appeal that argued that the death penalty is "cruel and unusual punishment,' and is therefore not allowed by the US Constitution. The Supreme Court decided that whether death was a fitting punishment for the crime depended entirely on the local mores of the area in question.

It is still possible that a federal law could be enacted which would outlaw the death penalty in all US states. The states would be bound by such a law. However, the politicians on Capitol Hill worry that enacting a no-death-penalty law would be incredibly unpopular with the public -- thus causing some of those who vote for it to lose their chances for re-election. Therefore, it is unlikely such a law will be passed unless public opinion changes drastically.


Executions

Post 23

Two Bit Trigger Pumping Moron

The Supreme Court made it illegal to execute people for crimes that don't result in death. However, we still have statutory law that permits executions for several violent felonies. In Geogia those offenses are rape, armed robbery, kidnapping, treason, and hijacking an aircraft.

We can't execute criminals for these violations, but the statutes remain. Sort of like the Alalbama law that prohibits interracial marriages. It's clearely unconstitutional, but no one bothered to take it off of the books until this year.

Since we can't execute people right now, we have to use alternative sentances. Our capital crimes have can also be punished by prison. For instnace, here is the punishment code for rape, "(b) A person convicted of the offense of rape shall be punished by death, by imprisonment for life without parole, by imprisonment for life, or by imprisonment for not less than ten nor more than 20 years. ..."

Of course, I am concerned about the finality of an execution, and I support their vigorous defense. If there's a possiblity they're innocent, then every effort should be made to determine the truth of it.

I once wanted to become a lawyer. I live about 20 miles from our death row. One of the things I wanted to do was defend these guys to make sure that everyone is satisfied as to their innocence or guilt before they fry.

On the other hand, there really aren't any innocents on death row. Ask the workers who defend them. None of them are any great loss to society. Read the bios on these guys at the Amnesty International. I can scarcley stand to live on the same planet as them.

Jason


Executions

Post 24

The Cow

Yeah.. but most of the UK ones seem to have been overturned...


Executions

Post 25

Fragilis - h2g2 Cured My Tabular Obsession

The problem is not as simple as asking whether the criminal is guilty or innocent. There is an additional problem in asking whether, out of all possible sentences, death is the one that most fits the crime.

For instance, statistics show a greater willingness to commit a black or Hispanic person to death -- especially if the victim or victims are white. The death penalty is much less likely to be assigned if the criminal is white -- and again especially if the victim is black or Hispanic. Do we really, as a country, believe that a white person's life is worth more than a black or Hispanic person's?

It's not as simple as checking DNA evidence to prove that the death penalty has been assigned correctly. We also have to take some sort of action to make sure that racial and other prejudices don't get in the way of fair verdicts. As it stands now, we aren't doing that.


Executions

Post 26

John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!"

Amnesty International has just released a report that Abdulhelil Abdumijit, a Uighur man in Chinese occupied East Turkestan, has reportedly been tortured to death by officials in Chapchal prison. He was a street trader accused of leading a demonstration three years ago.

JTG


Executions

Post 27

Two Bit Trigger Pumping Moron

I agree that the system needs to be less arbitrary to an extent. I also believe in local control. If a DA is dead set against excutions, and he made his views clear, then the people of theat district have decided agsint the use of executions.

If I were a DA, in all cases of murder, rape, and kidnapping with injury, the assistant district attorney would have to explain to the judge why he is not seeking the death penalty.

On evaluating the need for an execution, I would try to put myself in the shoes of the vicitm during the crime. I think the answer would be pretty much obvious what the proper punishment should be at that point. For isntance, if I someone were to hold a knife to my throat and rape me, I would expect an execution. If I am on my knees begging for my life right before I'm shot, I would expect that perpatrator to fry.


Executions

Post 28

Peta

I've just started a Talking Point subject on the Death Penalty. There's a link from the front page... Just thought I'd let you know.


Executions

Post 29

The Cow

Thank you...
What time do you finish work at the Towers?


Executions

Post 30

Horse with no name

Quite strantge... There are already 2 other forums (or should Isay fora?) about this topic... Well, I think I'm going to write for the third time my opinion (though I think it would be interesting to visit the other fora as well):
CP is totally stupid: why should someone have the right to decide if another person has to live or to die? I mean, it's paradoxical: the first purpose of PUNISHMENT is to EXPLAIN to someone he has done something he shouldn't have done; I've always been led to believe that the best way to explain something is to give a (positive) example: trying to explain to someone he mustn't kill by killing him doesn't sound logical, does it?
And then, how many innocents get killed and how many murderers (robbers...) don't? Simply because you had a bad lawyer, because you're black, because the judge was in a bad mood ........ you could lose your life! (Don't forget that the judge is also only a human person and not the blind "justitia").
And it seems it isn't really deterrent.
People who claim "An eye for an eye" have a quite primitive view on justice: what do you do with somene who killed another to protect another person, with the man on the street lost the control of his vehicle and killed someone... Don't forget that these persons will regret it all their lives and can't be called criminals.
And CP for a rape... (like in Georgia) I don't call that an eye for an eye.
Horse with no name


Executions

Post 31

John the gardener says, "Free Tibet!"

It's easy to confuse justice and revenge. The case of the two teens who committed the awful murder in the UK at the age of ten is a good example. On one hand, it is perfectly easy to understand the grief of the victim's family and their frustration at seeing an infant's murderers apparently being given the opportunity to pick up the pieces of their lives and carry on. On the other hand, would justice be served by burying two children forever in the penal system or in killing them? How can society compensate the victims of crime? Should it even try? Isn't the role of societies to improve the lives of their constituents? And isn't that better served by rehabilitating those who break the rules? At the other extreme we see examples like Ngawang Sangdrol, a 24-year-old Tibetan nun, she is a candidate for the Sakharov Prize for Freedom of Thought, which the government of china is protesting because, in their view, she is a criminal... her crime? Who knows... they won't say; but her original three year sentence was increased to 21 years for singing in her cell. She's lucky to be alive; other nuns have been tortured to death, or to the point of suicide.smiley - sadface

JTG


Executions

Post 32

Gw7en, Voice of Chaos (Classic)

The other thing that needs to be remembered is that sometimes life in prison can be as torturous as the death penalty. If I were given the choice between an injection that may sting but which would kill me within five minutes and the prospect of living my life behind bars, I would be hard pressed not to chose the injection. While the justice departments in most countries are working to improve the lot of prisoners, there is only so much they can - or should - do to make prison a bearable place.

Then we get into the revenge vs justice area that JTG mentioned. These people have done something horrible and do need to be held up as examples - if we don't do that then atrocious acts will continue. However, matching a horendous happening - for example a murder - with another one - putting the prisoner to death - is not necessarily the answer. We've been doing that since pre-Biblical times and yet the violence inherent in man's nature continues to rear its ugly head.

I suppose that what I have been trying to say in this rambling, wordy diatribe is that it is less important what justifications we use to act or not act on a situation and more important that we take a stand of some sort. In short, I can understand the need for a death penalty without necessarily supporting it.

Did that make any sense at all? I'm not sure anymore...

G7


Executions

Post 33

Teenwolf

Hmmm, interesting. I'm wondering why you used the phrase you did, Jason. "suffer a rapist to live" As horrible as the crime of rape is, I was under the impression that punisment by the government, (at least in the US, I can't vouch for anywhere else) was intended to be rehabilitative, and for the preservation of the society, not retributive. Anyway, I figure that the state governments here can barely keep the roads paved. The last thing those governments should be responsible for is who lives, and who dies. Just a thought.


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