h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Neds - The Scottish Chav - A3913931
Author: fords (Come to the Towel Day Meet! A3871208) - U183316

There's the potential to make more than one entry on the humble Scottish ned, but I've tried to make this one as concise as I can - for now!

Well that Certianly explains a lot about EV looks good

So when he says he's going out with friends he's actually going out to visit his kids?

Brilliant!

The bit about the goon ned and wee cheeky ned dug up long-supressed memories of a pair who used to terrorise me at school. You use the term senga however without explaining it?

This assumes that we know what an english chav is.

I don't really like this I'm afraid, feel it is a bit sneering. Probably just me though - it is well written, just the subject matter makes me feel a bit uncomfortable for some reason. Will go away and think about why...

k

A senga is just the name for a female ned Dave, but I can clarify.

I understand where you're coming from Kelli, but I've tried to keep it as objective but factual as I can. Also, I used to live on a high rise estate (out of desperation, not choice!) and all my writing is from first hand accounts

Tricky one.

Most people will recognise some of this, and it is well written.

But, at the end of the day it is very difficult to do without involving snobbery. There is no-one ned or chav underclass, or easily identifiable sub groups. There is a whole range of different people, who choose to dress and behave a certain way for a whole range of reasons. I accept that you've tried, but I don't think it is possible to write a piece such as this, without it involving them and us criticism.

And that makes people, me included, feel uncomfortable.

sprout

Why does it make you feel uncomfortable?

Because its a stereotype. And because its a judgement of certain behaviour, dress style etc based on a perceived sense of superiority.

Don't get me wrong, the criminal/anti-social behaviour you describle is worthy of criticism. But the hair, the clothes - even the sex life - how that can be objective? I'm sat at this computer in a suit and tie - what is innately better about that, compared to Burberry and baseball cap?

Anyway, that's just my opinion.

sprout

But that's just it, I'm not giving you a stereotype. I'm giving you somethig real.

I'm sorry about this, but I didn't like it either. That second paragraph really got my hackles up and I was offended by the entire piece.

I know that you say not all people on council estates are like this, any article that lumps a certain group of people as being pretty much all the same just seems wrong.

If you took out a lot of that second paragraph then I think the entry wouldn't seem so biased. I know your background, and you've just mentioned it here, but many people reading this won't know that it comes from your experience.

Sweeping a large amount of people into the same nasty group who are entirely bad seems wrong. I've read the Chav PR thread, and that's getting much of the same comments.

Couldn't this be re-written more along the lines of - A473924? Goth - a Lifestyle Choice. Ok so that was written by someone who likes Goths, but it seems more fair.

This entry - A245521 Scallies - does a very similar thing to this entry, but there doesn't seem to be a wholesale belittling of what does appear to be a social issue. I'm sure no-one wants to grow up into a life of crime, or to be looked down on by the upwardly mobile living around the corner.

I suffer from a similar thing here - I've lived on council estates for 32 of my 34 years, and the remaining two years I was on a Housing Trust estate and yes, there are lots of people like this. But there are also lots of hardworking people who want to make the most of their lives.

And I've probably just buggered up my overnight visit to stay in Scotland. But I do feel strongly enough that I wanted to comment.

Not at all!

You might be right about the second paragraph actually, I can see how it could be taken the wrong way. I want it to be tongue-in-cheek and looking at the Goth entry I think I'll style it round that. The other Chav one is more insulting than mine I think - at least I'm basing mine on fact.

I'm trying really hard not to offend but at the same time do a factual entry - honest!

Glad to hear that I've still got a sofa.

I always get offended when I think council estates are being put down. Mainly because I hate living on one and don't like being reminded about it.

I wasn't trying to put council estates down. It's just that they all do tend to come from these areas and I put in the bit about how not everyone who lives on a council estate is a ned. In fact, out of the eight flats on my floor there was only one family that didn't keep their part of the landing clean and caused trouble.

Done some more fiddling about - how does it look now?

Can you explain what an English Chav is in a footnote maybe? I'm English and I don't know what one is...

Well, the English chav is your equivalent of a Scottish ned

And you don't know what a chav is?

Nope, don't know what a chav is, maybe it's only used in certain areas of England.