A Conversation for The CAC Continuum

No indians before yossarian?

Post 1

dancingbuddha

smiley - huh I can name 4 right off the top of my head - there's me, kudumkumari, roying, and baruk (who's elvised). If I'm not mistaken, all of us have been featured in the Underguide/CAC somewhere...


No indians before yossarian?

Post 2

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

Hi db!
Yes, I've run into you before but not the others you mention. And I didn't realise you were posting from the sub-continent. I think I had the impression you were in the UK somewhere. Must go see if I can find a brief conversation we had a few weeks ago... can't remmeber where...

Well anyway, I'll check your homepage in a minute, but first let me ask what you think of the entry and if you had any thoughts on yoss's suggestion that colour TV has captured the Indian mind. Is it true? Are all Indians razzle-dazzled by the box of dancing colours?

And here's another tough one for you. Do Indians living in the UK refer to India as the Motherland, the Fatherland or the Homeland? Or something else altogether? That really is a serious question.

smiley - peacedove
~jwf~


No indians before yossarian?

Post 3

dancingbuddha

You are almost correct, sir - I *do* post from the US. However, I grew up in India, and only moved to the US for grad school last August. I guess that makes me a bo-na-fi-de Indian. At any rate, most of what I've written was when I was in India, though you are correct - most people find it difficult to divine from the way I write where I hail from.

About colour TVs - they've been around in India for the past 20 years, and have quite ubiquitous since the last 10 years. I don't think you can find B/W ones except in really really old homes and junkyards and with people who treasure old stuff. So colour TV per se is quite mundane. What *is* interesting is the blooming of hundreds of channels - quite a few of them local broadcasters - that seems to mirror the phenomenon in the US. Inane soaps throng the air, some people I know spend inordinate amounts of time in front of the box, kids know more about the Power Rangers than what goes around in the world, bored mothers expend their afternoons captivated by the meaningless adventures of telly mothers like them. It is a gray, gray world, those 6 feet from the screen.

However, as I said, this is no better or worse than what seems to be going on in the West (esp. the US).

About Indians living in the UK - sadly, I have not the pleasure of their acquaintance. I tend to stay away from the Indian diaspora here (in the US) as well - they're (in general, with a few scintillating exceptions) confused about their identity, hypocritical, parochial, and are basically intent on preserving a cocoon of their home country around them, without attempting to learn much about this new country. Those are the expats, of course - I don't know any Indians who've grown up in the West. But one thing is certain - the traditional patriotic name for India is 'Mother India'. So yes, it would be the Motherland.


No indians before yossarian?

Post 4

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

smiley - bigeyes
Thank you.
I seem to recall I have already said elsewhere how much I enjoy your perspective on things. So I won't go on about it here except to say how refreshing it is to hear from a realist who still has a sense of humour about Life the Universe and Everything and some compassion for the human race.

I certainly recognise this type:
"...confused about their identity, hypocritical, parochial, and are basically intent on preserving a cocoon of their home country around them, without attempting to learn much about this new country."
But this is more or less true of most new immigrants to the western hemisphere. It takes a lot of heart and hope and courage to establish new relations in a new country, especially in an amoral materialistic western culture. And in some places being of a 'visible minority' is a real struggle.

If you ever have the opportunity, I believe you would find certain West Indians - those who are descendants of East Indians that came to the Caribbean a few generations back as indentured workers under the British colonial policies - will have completely shed their cocoons.

Many come here (North America) to study and escape the relative poverty of 'middle class' life in the West Indies' island nations. Most want to stay and practise their professions here. Few ever return permanently to their Caribbean lives because their new professional status and their adjustment to North American standards make it too embarassing for them to live in their old neighborhoods again.

In some sections of Port of Spain Trinidad you will find streets that might be in India, the architecture and dress are traditional and they keep themselves separate from the descendants of negro and chinese indentured workers whose great grandfathers were brought to work on the same British owned plantations as their great grandfathers were.

Happily there has also been a lot of mixed marriage - with stunningly beautiful results! Not mention the music mixes - from calypso to reggae. Ah! Carnival!

smiley - peacedove
~jwf~


No indians before yossarian?

Post 5

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

PS:
Just in case I never get a chance to bring it up in another conversation anytime soon I wanted to tell you how much I like the Indian flag.
http://www.boowakwala.com/flag/india.html
It's kinda like Italy's red,white and green, but with a pizza in the middle.
smiley - run
~jwf~


No indians before yossarian?

Post 6

dancingbuddha

>> ...realist who still has a sense of humour about Life the Universe and Everything and some compassion for the human race

Hmm. Am I a realist? Perhaps - most of the time I'm quite unsure of my reality myself. At the present moment, I prefer to maintain that my reality is groundless. As for compassion for the human race, why thank you!!! smiley - bigeyes I haven't heard anyone say I had that, except perhaps for one exception. Certainly the majority thinks otherwise...

>> But this is more or less true of most new immigrants to the western hemisphere

I would think it is true more generally than that - enough Western travelers to the East have come across as being only interested in watching the world from the insides of their mineral water bottles. It staggers them that people can live differently, and be comfortable about it. Their responses to these environments are as cocoon-making as my fellow countrymen's here. It would seem that it is a basic human response. Perhaps you might find this post of interest: F135418?thread=563544&post=6798344#p6798344

I would love to travel the Caribbean if I could. And yes, carnival!

>> Happily there has also been a lot of mixed marriage - with stunningly beautiful results!

Where are they, then? And why don't I have one of my own? smiley - wah

~ db


No indians before yossarian?

Post 7

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

>> Where are they, then? And why don't I have one of my own? <<

I see we have much in common.
But you have youth on your side.

It is sadly true that very few Caribbean students who come to this continent for university studies are of the female persuasion. West Inidan women of East Indian descent are just not expected to become doctors or lawyers. Old sexist habits die hard and most girls are kept home to keep house and make babies.

Arranged marriages are still the rule in communities that stay aloof and cocooned trying to maintain their old east Indian ways with religious and racial purity. Happily the most desirable young women of mixed race are more likely to be looking for an opportunity and more inclined to escape their island culture.

No doubt many of the best and brightest will be found teaching or nursing even though they know they will likely never get a chance to advance further. One must travel to the islands to find them. So if you will take my advice you will set forth at your earliest convenience while you still have the energy. At least get there before next year's Carnival. Go early and scout things out before the party starts.
smiley - cheers
~jwf~


No indians before yossarian?

Post 8

dancingbuddha

Alas - my world holds me back. Study loans to pay off, degrees to be earned, methods to understand. At most, I might make it to Burning Man in Nevada, or to the wonderful debauchery of New Orleans. It will be a few years yet before I can adventure...

Besides, I have very unusual interests in the other sex - the classic stereotypes fail to impress me most of the time. And I am completely incapable of engaging in nought but the most serious manner - I just can't do the 'Oooh look, what a desirable person, let's go get em' thing. Any engagement I make is always for the highest stakes. Wonder what I'm missing by being less flirtatious...

~ db


No indians before yossarian?

Post 9

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

>> Wonder what I'm missing by being less flirtatious...<<

Probably just a lot of heartache, financial ruin and several sexually tramsitted diseases. If you are truly a Buddhist then you know that love will one day come to you and any attempt to seek it out prematurely will end badly.

You seem to be on the right path, especially if you're heading in the direction of Nevada. I'd give up several New Orleans Mardis Gras for just a peek at the Burning Man fest.

Of course as a Canadian I am unlikely to ever enter the US again. The idea of submitting to cavity searches by US border guards is enough to kill any desire I have to visit the USofA.
smiley - cheers
~jwf~








No indians before yossarian?

Post 10

dancingbuddha

Me, a Buddhist? smiley - laugh No, I'm merely this guy, you know. I make mistakes, I hurt, I find it difficult to let go. Nirvana is boring.

And as for love - I've been in love. Twice. Once I had to let go, the second time it ended prematurely. I don't honestly find any solace in the idea that 'it will come one day' - I am, as you say, realist enough to understand that is wishful thinking. And besides, as a potential Buddhist, I would know better than to trust to life.

But Burning Man calls - even as New Orleans does. Everything must be experienced - once, if not more. I'll go wherever I can, whenever I can

~ db


No indians before yossarian?

Post 11

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

>> I don't honestly find any solace in the idea that 'it will come one day'.. <<

smiley - cheers
Thank you once again for your realism.
Please forgive my wandering into patronising platitudes.
When you get to Burning Man think of me, trapped behind the Northern Border I dare not cross, because an army of armed US security and border patrols is poised and waiting to do cavity searches on the likes of me. The price of admission to the promised land is far too high.
smiley - winkeye
~jwf~


No indians before yossarian?

Post 12

dancingbuddha

smiley - rofl when you said cavity searches I was thinking of teeth!

~ db


No indians before yossarian?

Post 13

dancingbuddha

>> ...waiting to do cavity searches on the likes of me

But seriously, what is it about the likes of you that would make border guards want to do cavity searches?

~


No indians before yossarian?

Post 14

~ jwf ~ scribblo ergo sum

My age and appearance clearly mark me as an old hippy refugee from the 1960s and the unmistakable sickly sweet aroma of marijuana smoke permeates my clothing, my car, my camping gear, my thinking.

Since I would never be foolish enough to attempt smuggling my favourite smoke across an international border their frustrated search would only lead them to treat me with that special type of scorn and abuse policemen generally reserve for those they suspect but cannot prove are guilty.

No doubt they would 'find traces' somewhere and their laws allow them to then confiscate your car and all your belongings and jail you without trial for Homeland Security border violations.

And since I cannot be long without the psychological support I enjoy from cannabis and know no sources in the USofA it is quite simply easier to remain in this country where it is not considered a crime to pursue enlightenment thru possession of nature's wonderweed. Here it is only considered a crime to grow or sell it or possess more than 15grams.

smiley - peacedove
~jwf~


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