A Conversation for Slayerville

Prophecy Girl

Post 1

HonestIago

Today I watched my last unwatched episode of Buffy Strangely I thought I'd watched Prophecy Girl before but watching the video I realised that I haven't or at least not all of it.
I was blown away, I hadn't realised Season 1 could be this good. Controversial though it may be, I never thought Season 1 was that good, certainly not as good as what followed, it lacked the drama and the darkness that made later seasons so good. Prophecy Girl had all the elements I love in Buffy and all the characters came into their own.
Buffy was superb, the oft-quoted "Will it hurt?" was amazing, and carried such a punch, similarly Willow's decision to fight. Despite this I felt the episode really belonged to Xander. Buffy fought because it was her destiny and her moral duty, whereas Xander had no reason to fight, except his own heroism


Prophecy Girl

Post 2

Kat

I think this episode shows both the best and worst of Xander. In the early parts you see his insenstivity of Willow's feelings - like asking her to the dance only after Buffy's turned him down and his jealously towards Angel and bitterness towards Buffy and his self-pity that she doesn't fancy him and has him in the best friend box. We also see his finest two qualities emerge when he goes to Angel to save Buffy - the totally unconditional love he has for Buffy and the courage and determination which comes from it which at this stage is greater than Angel's who is a lot physically stronger. As Anya will later say "there is no one like you. You were willing to fight with no weapons in your hands". It provides a strong arguement for Xander being the bravest of them all since he will fight despite having the least power to help him - sadly it will also led to him being maimed by Caleb. The unconditional love that flies definately in the face of everything else will also save Willow and the world at the end of season six - giving the hopeful message "that love remains and conquers despite everything else falling apart". I think the speech he gives to Angel also show the best and worst of him. It illustrates his bigotry and jealously whilst showing that he will co-operate with someone he hates if he believes it will help save the one he loves. Again his determination that his beloved mate will live saves the day as it will five years later - that despite what anyone or anything says she can and will be saved or he will die trying. Like everyone else - we loved Xander as he is a hero and the fact he is a very human one with flaws makes him someone we can relate to rather than a remote paragon. A song from the CD from War of the World goes "If just one man can stand tall, there must be some hope for us all, somewhere in the spirit of man".


Prophecy Girl

Post 3

Bud_White

Well, Prophecy Girl is probably my second ever favourite episode, so I'm slightly disappointed I got here latesmiley - smiley.

In serious comment, or at least as serious as I can besmiley - smiley, while the episode has moments for all characters, I agree with the idea in many ways that this is Xander's episode. In going to save Buffy he shows what truly makes him great. This is the episode that in many ways explains why I am such a staunch supporter of Xander. I can forgive hom so much for what he did here.

And, incidentally, I think SMG's performance here is as good as it ever has been.

And, HonestIago, you're right about the fact s.1 is generally not quite as good as subsequent seasons (s.6/7 apart for nowsmiley - smiley - my opinion only) but this episode is the exception to the rule - it is so (italics and underlkine on the 'so' there) good.


Prophecy Girl

Post 4

Kat

I actually thought four was weaker than both six and seven, although it has some really good invididual episodes. I like season seven a lot actually and it's my second favourite to three - which is almost flawless - but I reckonise this is a minority opinion and I can see why a lot of people don't like it. Season one isn't the best and the characters are annoying at times but then most good shows don't peak in the first season - they wouldn't be such good shows if there wasn't more to give after the first season.


Prophecy Girl

Post 5

Bud_White

Well, my thoughts on s.7 are pretty well-known round these parts so I won't go into them againsmiley - smiley. And in fairness, I do prefer s.6 to s.1, so I'd agree it certainly didn't peak s.1.


Prophecy Girl

Post 6

Carlyle Ferris

In my humble opinion I believe that Prophecy Girl defined the following seasons. It pulled together all the relationships that had been developing in the first eleven episodes. There was a significant scene between Buffy and all other protagonists plus the definition of Xander as the "Heart", Giles as The "Brain etc. The only one who came badly out of Prophecy Girl was Angel exhibiting great cowardice in the face of The Master.
C


Prophecy Girl

Post 7

oldramon


I've hit this thread five weeks after the fact, but better late than never, I guess. S1 is my favourite season of BtVS and I personally think that S7 is the *best* season in terms of its narrative and as a sustained piece of artistic work. I do understand all the reasons why a lot of people don't rate the first season very highly and actively dislike the final season. It's entirely subjective and we respond to different things for different reasons. I adore all seven seasons, but S1 just happens to be the one I like the best.

'Prophecy Girl' is a wonderful episode. Along with 'The Gift', it is my favourite season finale (not counting 'Restless', which I tend to view in slightly different terms). I agree with Bud that the central performance of SMG is tremendous here. Having said that, I personally don't hold with the widely held view that this is the episode that raised the level of quality and became the true starting point of BtVS as we know it.

For me, episodes like 'The Witch', 'The Pack' and 'The Puppet Show' and 'Nightmares' are all highly under-rated. In fact, I think all eleven episodes of S1 leading up to the finale fall into this category. Some of you will know, of course, that 'Never Kill A Boy On The First Date' is my all-time favourite BtVS episode. I have increasingly come to believe that this is not only a very important episode in establishing the core narrative of the show, but it is also a genuine lost classic, every bit as exceptional as episodes like 'Innocence' and 'Earshot' from later seasons (these are just two random episodes I have used as examples).

This, of course, is a personal opinion and one I doubt many people would agree with, but that’s one of the reasons why the show is so great. It works on all sorts of different levels and everyone has different reasons for loving so it so much. Each one is as valid as any other.


Prophecy Girl

Post 8

Kat

Oh absolutely with the subjectivity - it's why the place was always so interesting in that as someone I forget whom said in their review of "LMPTM" that it's all about perspective and everyone has a different one with season and character preferences that vary wildly - some like myself and Mrs Liotta being open advocates of our favourite characters. The first episode I watched and really enjoyed was actually "Out of Mind, Out of Sight" which is not an episode many seem to rate. I didn't actually like "NKABOTFD" that much first time I saw it and I think Xander and to some extent Buffy is annoying in it although Giles has one the greatest lines of the entire season "so I'll just go back in time and get them to change their ancient prophecy so you take in dinner and a show" and Buffy's reposte "at this point you're abusing sarcasm" is also good.


Prophecy Girl

Post 9

Bud_White

While I am one of those who does think Prophecy Girl is the first episode that showed the true potential of the show, I do agree that there are some very under-rated episodes in the first season (though, sorry, oldramon, I don't count NKABOTFD among them - good but still one of the weaker of the season for me). But Witch, The Puppet Show and Nightmares I agree are excellent. I just think the reason the show worked so well at its best was the depth of the characters, depth which takes time to draw, and which you couldn't really expect from opening epsiodes where the characters are still being drawn. By the time of Prophecy Girl, the characters were now well-established enough, and we had the requisite affection for them to make to give that episode the pathos, (almost melodramatic, but not in the ridiculous sense but in the same sense Shakespeare used melodrama - and please note I'm not comparing BtVS to Shakespeare in terms of quality, either positively or negatively - thought I should specify since Shakespeare is such a sacred cow), that came to be such a strength of the show.


Prophecy Girl

Post 10

oldramon


Vampadvocate: Oddly enough, 'Out Of Mind, Out Of Sight' was the one S1 episode that I used to struggle with a little bit. A friend of mine started to watch the show around the time of the seventh season, randomly working her way through all the episodes she had missed up to that point. 'Out Of Mind, Out Of Sight' was the S1 episode she immediately responded to on first viewing. I discussed it with her at some length and it inspired me to go back and re-evaluate it. Lo and behold, it is now a firm favourite.

Bud, it's interesting that you should mention Shakespeare. David Lavery, the professor of English at Mid Tennessee State University and co-founder of The On-line International Journal of Buffy Studies (Slayage) has gone on record to state that, in his opinion, 'Buffy' is a piece of great literature every bit the equal of the works of Shakespeare. The co-founder of Slayage, Rhonda Wilcox, has recently had her book 'Why Buffy Matters: The Art of Buffy the Vampire Slayer' published. This follows a similar argument, setting out to explain why 'Buffy' is "art of the highest order."


Prophecy Girl

Post 11

Bud_White

Suffice to say, I think BtVS is great and I also think Shakespeare is great (comedies aside - and don't get me started on The Taming of the Shrew - analyse the text all you want for a way out, at the end of the day, that play is sexist).

But I try not to use the word 'art' too much, it just seems to me to encourage horribly elitist attitudes. It's a bit like another of my pet hates, in book shops, the section entitled 'literary fiction' As if that's a proper genre. I mean, why not just have all the other genres, so crime, sci-fi, fantasy, horror, and then instead of literary fiction, you could call it 'proper books' Or 'real books for grown-ups' perhaps.

But anyhoo, BtVS = great. Fact.


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