A Conversation for Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller Posted Jun 2, 2008
*And would this be easier to read with spaces between the list points?*
I think that would be a good idea, line breaks act like little breathers for the reader, the eye stops for a moment and the brain digests.
Gets my up
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Websailor Posted Jun 2, 2008
I am always in favour of anything that breaks up blocks of text. It is easier on the (old) eyes, and people are less likely to give up on a long article.
I watched a brilliant programme by Ray Mears on TV last night on your very subject
Websailor
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Pinniped Posted Jun 2, 2008
Great subject, and a pretty good crack at it.
Linking to this Entry could be a good idea, saving you having to put in too much on finding your bearings without a compass: A684399
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Malabarista - now with added pony Posted Jun 2, 2008
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Malabarista - now with added pony Posted Jun 3, 2008
Added a section on not walking in circles and spaced the list points apart.
I thought I'd already linked to "Using the Sun to Orient Yourself", but it turned out that was in the other entry So I linked to it here, too.
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
pailaway - (an utterly gratuitous link in the evolutionary chain) Posted Jun 4, 2008
I'll have a good read when I'm out today - and if I can find my way back I'll comment
.
.
.
I'm lost already! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh...
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Malabarista - now with added pony Posted Jun 4, 2008
I'm still mildly worried about Websailor's suggestion that this doesn't fit the Guidelines - does anyone else think that?
Might as well remember to put this bit in, though it's nearly a new dot anyway
Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation - A36715223
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Websailor Posted Jun 4, 2008
Malabarista,
Stop worrying. If no-one else thinks that, it's just me. It was only a thought after all, not a statement! The guidelines seem so strict sometimes it is difficult to say. If you are not sure ask Galaxy Babe or Gnomon, as long serving researchers they should know.
I have to say I am surprised so few people have dropped in on you, but they seem very busy at present, so perhaps that's why.
Websailor
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
pailaway - (an utterly gratuitous link in the evolutionary chain) Posted Jun 5, 2008
Excellent
I'm sure you don't mind well-founded criticism - however mine is never that sort.
You know, at first I was thinking how there are some items that everyone just ought to have - like a pocket knife. But then it occurred to me that if you're in a plane wreck, you will have been stripped of every single potentially useful item - particularly your pocket knife - before they let you onboard.
(Safety Tip: Do Not Fly - especially if you think you might crash)
For me, the linear road footnote didn't seem to add anything to the piece - i think it may be a mixed metaphor kind of thing. In the text you mean 1d vs 2d, but in the footnote you mean straight line vs curved. it's slightly jarring, but that might just be me.
Btw, if you do have a towel, or a t-shirt - you can lay it on the ground at night and it will soak up the dew which you can wring out in the morning.
I have not actually tried making a lens with a drop of water and starting a fire - does that really work? I'll have to try it tomorrow.
Funny you should mention dried animal dung for fuel - in the western US, it is plentiful regardless of how remote you may be.
'covert sneaking' - what other kind is there?
Somewhere you might mention that it is a good idea to look backwards from time to time in case you need to retrace your steps. This is not as silly as it sounds - things will look different to you on the way back unless you have done this exercise. It's a habit that mountain men and native americans had when the west was still wild.
>>Find a piece of iron - a nail, a pin, or similar - and tap the end hard with a stone while pointing it along a north-south axis<<
Are you saying that first you find out where north is, then you align the metal and then tap it to make a compass to find where north is?
On the subject of finding north - you might mention those indicators like moss on the north side of a tree or rock, and that trees have branches growing more horizontally on the south side and more vertically on the north side.
That's all the poorly founded criticism I have and I can't think of any of the other kind
(Good work )
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Malabarista - now with added pony Posted Jun 5, 2008
Right, that's a lot of input so let's go through these points one by one.
>>You know, at first I was thinking how there are some items that everyone just ought to have - like a pocket knife. But then it occurred to me that if you're in a plane wreck, you will have been stripped of every single potentially useful item - particularly your pocket knife - before they let you onboard.<<
They do strip you of anything useful when you fly - so you'd have to search through the wreckage for useable things. Just in case you find nothing, the premise of this entry is that you only have the clothes you're wearing.
>>For me, the linear road footnote didn't seem to add anything to the piece - i think it may be a mixed metaphor kind of thing. In the text you mean 1d vs 2d, but in the footnote you mean straight line vs curved. it's slightly jarring, but that might just be me.<<
No, the footnote was just in case some kind of know-it-all points out that roads curve whereas lines do not. But yes, it was a 1D/2D kind of thing. I can always take the footnote back out.
>>Btw, if you do have a towel, or a t-shirt - you can lay it on the ground at night and it will soak up the dew which you can wring out in the morning.<<
Good point - though you'll need your clothes especially at night in most climates.
>>I have not actually tried making a lens with a drop of water and starting a fire - does that really work? I'll have to try it tomorrow.<<
It usually does work, though it's difficult to get the angle right because the water will roll off if you tilt it too much - and it has to be a drop, not a puddle!
>>'covert sneaking' - what other kind is there?<<
Most people are no good at sneaking, and are rather obvious. Hence the link.
>>Somewhere you might mention that it is a good idea to look backwards from time to time in case you need to retrace your steps. This is not as silly as it sounds - things will look different to you on the way back unless you have done this exercise. It's a habit that mountain men and native americans had when the west was still wild.<<
Another good point - I had mentioned that you need to mark your trail to retrace your steps, but will amend that.
>>"Find a piece of iron - a nail, a pin, or similar - and tap the end hard with a stone while pointing it along a north-south axis"
Are you saying that first you find out where north is, then you align the metal and then tap it to make a compass to find where north is?<<
Yes, pretty much. Because while North may be easy to find at certain times of day - when the sky is visible and you can navigate by the sun, stars, etc - it's a lot harder when the sky is overcast or you're under trees. Also, using a compass is quicker. I've found other ways to polarise the needle, though, so I'll add that.
>>On the subject of finding north - you might mention those indicators like moss on the north side of a tree or rock, and that trees have branches growing more horizontally on the south side and more vertically on the north side.<<
Well, no. Moss grows on the north of trees, yes. But it also grows on all the other sides of trees. On an isolated tree in the Northern Hemisphere with no prevailing winds, no other trees casting shadows, no body of water nearby, and no prior damage to the tree, some kinds of moss will exhibit a tendency to grow more lushly on the north side. And the branches in the pattern you described - but really, the local microclimate is based on a lot of other factors, many of which are more influential.
I will add a warning about believing this - because it's caused many people to wander in circles - and more information on how to navigate without a compass by more reliable indicators.
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
pailaway - (an utterly gratuitous link in the evolutionary chain) Posted Jun 5, 2008
You make a very good point about microclimates.
Btw, here's something I noticed when I traveled through Kansas (flat plains) into Colorado (rocky mountains). In Kansas, people always kept their bearings by paying attention to the wind (how could you not?). See, on the plains the wind shifts direction throughout the day, but only slowly and it's something you notice and keep track of. It's all they have because there are no features at all in the landscape.
In the mountains, the wind is a useless indicator, but there tons of features.
I became aware of this when talking to a Kansas resident who asked where I was headed and when I said Colorado, he said 'That place is crazy - the wind just comes at you from all directions and I could never figure out where I was going'.
Then, to test this, when I was in Colorado I kept alert for someone who had traveled to Kansas and when I found one I quizzed him - he said, 'I was in Kansas once and got completely lost - there's nothing between you and the horizon.'
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Malabarista - now with added pony Posted Jun 5, 2008
That's a good story
Changes made
Removed the "linear road" footnote.
Added the towel tip, and a bit more on how to get water.
Added the note on looking back once in a while.
Put in a section on hostile terrain - more tips there greatly appreciated.
Put in a bit on navigating by celestial bodies.
Added more ways to magnetise the needle for a makeshift compass.
Now it might definitely be too long, so if anyone sees anything that can safely be removed...
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Malabarista - now with added pony Posted Jun 5, 2008
Also, I believe Websailor, Psycorp, Keith Miller, Sprout, and Pailaway will be getting collaboration credit. Any objections? And did I forget anyone?
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller Posted Jun 5, 2008
I don't think I need to be acknowledged as I'm just doing what you should do in PR after all.
I have one small item that might be of interest, but only if your lost in a dry barren place(No, not a Temperance Hall or a Politician's fresh *Ideas* conference) like parts of North Africa, the dry regions of Asia or much of Australia.
I'd have to do a bit of research to hopefully find the actual snippet of advice but the gist of it is this: If you pack a large, reasonably strong plastic bag, bigger than a shopping bag if you can but not huge. Then you will have an item that could save you from dying of thirst in these hostile arid regions(hostile in reference to the environment in this instance).
Find a tree or shrub/bush, some kind of leafy vegetation and place the bag over a section of it: poke a leafy branch inside the bag.
You then tie the opening of the bag as tight as you can to try and seal the opening.
During the course of the day/afternoon the air will heat up inside and the leaves are now literally sweating and condensation will form as the outside air cools overnight.
In the morning you carefully untie the bag and consume the contents.
This trick was shown on a TV series shown here some time ago called "The Bush Tucker Man" and the presenter was an Australian Army survival expert and his piece of plastic was quite large and in the morning he was able to collect a not inconsiderable amount of water.
I was quite amazed by such a simple thing, it is of course a basic scientific principle of which I have no idea what it's called.
I know it's 'yet' another snippet of info' but it's an interesting one all the same.
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller Posted Jun 5, 2008
Could well be.
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
pailaway - (an utterly gratuitous link in the evolutionary chain) Posted Jun 6, 2008
I agree, we're just doing what we're supposed to do in PR - whatever that is
That's a great idea for collecting water
Would it work to tie a bag around another member of the survival party? Say, at night while they're asleep and won't notice?
On a similar note, I wonder if it's worth mentioning that eating another member of the survival party is a very bad idea - for what I'm sure are very good reasons?
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller Posted Jun 6, 2008
No one would be annoyed if it was that member who snored, they may well as they ask for the salt to be passed
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
Malabarista - now with added pony Posted Jun 6, 2008
Key: Complain about this post
A36715223 - Finding Your Way Back To Civilisation
- 21: Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller (Jun 2, 2008)
- 22: Websailor (Jun 2, 2008)
- 23: Pinniped (Jun 2, 2008)
- 24: Malabarista - now with added pony (Jun 2, 2008)
- 25: Malabarista - now with added pony (Jun 3, 2008)
- 26: pailaway - (an utterly gratuitous link in the evolutionary chain) (Jun 4, 2008)
- 27: Malabarista - now with added pony (Jun 4, 2008)
- 28: Websailor (Jun 4, 2008)
- 29: pailaway - (an utterly gratuitous link in the evolutionary chain) (Jun 5, 2008)
- 30: Malabarista - now with added pony (Jun 5, 2008)
- 31: pailaway - (an utterly gratuitous link in the evolutionary chain) (Jun 5, 2008)
- 32: Malabarista - now with added pony (Jun 5, 2008)
- 33: Malabarista - now with added pony (Jun 5, 2008)
- 34: Websailor (Jun 5, 2008)
- 35: Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller (Jun 5, 2008)
- 36: KB (Jun 5, 2008)
- 37: Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller (Jun 5, 2008)
- 38: pailaway - (an utterly gratuitous link in the evolutionary chain) (Jun 6, 2008)
- 39: Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller (Jun 6, 2008)
- 40: Malabarista - now with added pony (Jun 6, 2008)
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