h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>"Checklist for bottle feeding.

Bottle and lid, sterilised and wrapped up to keep it that way
teat, also sterilised and protected against germs
spare teat - you'll probably drop the first one.
warmer
right amount of formula
right amount of water
bib
cloth to wipe the bottle when it comes out of the warmer
about four hands to juggle all this lot
Oh, and the baby"

Where do you get that idea from? The only things to take, are the ready made bottle, (oh, and bottle of water, don't those who breastfeed offer their baby water to drink, milk is a food, not a drink) and baby, that's it.

You would have tissuses, if they were needed in the nappy changing bag,

Basic bottle feeding:

Equipment:

Bottles they come with teats and caps.
Spare Teats
Steraliser
Steralising tablets

When you get up, boil kettle, take 3-4 empty bottles from steraliser, rinse them out, make up formula as instructions, put in made up bottles in fridge. When down to one bottle, make up another 3-4 making sure that there is one in the fridge for over-night if the baby is having night feeds, and one for morning feed, so you don't have to wait for the ones made will boiled water to cool down.

When a bottle is required, simply boil kettle, take a bottle from fridge, put bottle in jug of boiling water to warm a little, (being careful, *not* to place the jug of boiling water within baboes reach)
remove cap from bottle, and feed baby.

Because you can see how much baby has had, I think the average bottle holds 9oz you can judge when baby will need another feed, if they drink the full bottle, not usually for about another four hours.

As much as I can remember, and as accurate as my memory, was 17 years ago.

Emmily

"milk is a food, not a drink"

Bottle milk is a food, not a drink. Breast milk is both, because the breast milk changes consistency as the feed progresses, allowing the baby to regulate the amount of liquid he or she gets as well as the amount of food.

Hello again, and welcome Éowyn, I'll add you to the page this weekend.

On the comments that breastfeeding benefits include higher intelligence and less obesity, I'd want to see some well-researched evidence that supports this before including it. As for the gastro-enteritis, perhaps an explanation of what this is and how breastfeeding reduces the risk of baby getting it.

When making the argument that breastfeeding is better than bottle feeding, keep in mind (as I think Mikey pointed out) that many moms will pump breast milk and feed it with a bottle. I think it's really important not to condemn bottles too much for this reason if no other.

I also think that while we are endeavouring to cover as many aspects of breastfeeding as we can, we should remember that for various reasons some mothers will not be successful. After the ordeals of childbirth and adjusting to having a new, needy little appendage around the house, when met with failure some women just will not be able to continue trying. I think the best entry we can create will be completely about breastfeeding, the pros and cons, full of factual and compelling information; and not so much a comparison of breast to bottle.

Definitely would like more information on pumping, storing and bottle feeding, as without this option women who must return to work would be defeated before they even begin.

On breastfeeding in public:
--As was mentioned about the recent change in Oklahoma law (while I cerainly wouldn't expect Europe to be this Neanderthal), it may be best to check local ordinances before whipping out a breast.
--In addition to blankets or shawls, there are capes that are made specially for breastfeeding, as well as special clothes that allow easy access and some degree of privacy for feeding. I didn't like using a cape or blanket because I liked being able to see my baby while he fed.
--About where to feed in public, while I agree about 'not being forced into the loo', it might be a good idea to at least check it out. Some shops and restaurants have lounges in their restrooms which might provide more comfort than sitting at a table in a restaurant or on a bench in a shop. Some of the restrooms at my work (a manufacturing facility) even have this.

expressing milk (I prefer that expression to pumping)

I had a small hand pump (from Boots if anyone wants to know) which fitted to their own brand wide necked baby bottles (which come in 2 sizes) - I didn't use it too much because I was on maternity leave for the most part, but later on I taught English some evenings and expressing was a good option for me.

OK, the mechanics: pumps work, basically, by providing some kind of cup which fits, over the entire nipple area. This cup gives about two centimetres of space between the nipple and the tube leading from the cup to the milk... bottle (recptacle). Generally there are two methods of causing suction - hand or battery/electric power. Some electric machines, or so I have heard, can accomodate both breasts at once, but I have never seen one and I think this was a myth to frighten me!!

With a battery/electric machine, make sure you are comfortable, put your breast in the suction cup part of the machine and switch on. The first time or two you may only get a squirt or two, it is basically trial and error for position and strength of suction. Also if you have only just had a baby and a routine is not established you probably won't get too much milk to start with. As with everything associated with breastfeeding: persevere. (but not to the point where it causes enough stress to outweight the benefit)

With a hand pump, the same applies. The pump is generally a lever which runs parallel to the tube which takes milk to the bottle (usually at right angles to the suction cup). Squeeze with a regular rhythm.

A usual feed will be about 8 oz (? someone help me out here, I can't remember!!) but you will know when your breast is empty because no more milk will come out. Change breasts when one has been emptied, or just express from the other breast next time.

As with feeding a baby, if you are going to alternate breasts, it is a good idea to tie a little ribbon around the brastrap you just used, so you know to start on the other next time. (oh, this was advice from my midwife: when you feed or express, if you use both breasts, start on the other one - to the one you finished on - next time)

Breastmilk can be frozen (in special bags, or you can use normal freezer bags) in handy portions (I froze portions of 4oz) for up to 3 months, or stored in the fridge for up to 24 hours. Leave to thaw naturally, then warm up either in a waterbath or (very carefully) in a microwave or baby bottle warmer.
IF YOU USE A MICROWAVE MAKE SURE YOU SHAKE THE MILK BEFORE GIVING TO THE BABY, AND TEST THE TEMPERATURE ON YOUR WRIST. (I believe current advice in the UK is not to microwave baby milk for the simple reason that many people didn't follow that direction and scalded their babies)

Note: breastmilk can look very thin and watery, even blueish sometimes. Othertimes it looks very creamy and full.

It tastes quite sweet (yeuch!)

Expressing is helped if you are relaxed and warm. (when I first tried, despite very successfully having bf 2 babies, I couldn't get a good technique. One day I noticed that my breasts were leaking after a warm bath, and until I got the hang of doing it in my "bf chair" I had a bath and then pumped)

You may be surprised at how many directions the milk squirts in coming out of your nipples (am I alone in having thought that it only came out of the tips? I was, to be blunt, gobsmacked!)

Reasons to express:
1) you are going back to work, or will be separated (regularly or not) from your baby over one or more feeding times
2) your partner/the grandma/grandad/other siblings/anyone else who helps wants to help feed the baby
3) you know in advance that you will have to take medication or have an operation - expressing and freezing is a good option
4) you have to take medication for a set period - you can express to keep the milk flow up and once the medication is out of your system you can resume feeding the baby (if the baby will go back to that, which is a whole other story.)
5) I've run out of reasons but 4 seems too few

One question people often have if you are feeding a baby and expressing (for soon or later) is "will I have enough milk"

Generally, if you are healthy and all that, you will produce enough milk to feed the baby and express also.

Oh and I just thought of another thing: do not feed the baby and express in the same session. Someone earlier in the thread pointed out that for a bf baby, milk isn't just food it is a refreshing drink too. The milk changes at various stages of a feed, (you can easily observe this while expressing) and doing this will deprive your baby of either nice fatty "food" milk, or nice thin "drink" milk.

OK, I think that's ok (apart from it obviously needs to be written up properly)

sorry, monster post there.

Question about the actual writing of the article: how do we handle that. Will one brave soul get the gems out of all these posts and slap them into shape?

Will we each take sections and filter "our own" information out of the thread?

Oh take a look at the article...Milosa's been adding to it as we've chucked ideas around..

now why didn't I think of that?

and if I'd been paying attention I wouldn't have written most of the monster post!!

Oh, and I know that I'm really extremely picky about this but is there any chance that instead of the "it is not good for baby" (not an actual example, but just a sort of example of the writing) that we can always append the definite article to 'baby'

Sorry, it just sounds really... I don't know, patronising, I guess, without the 'the'.

And if we can do that I won't make a peep about 'mom'

Hi Milso

Partly due to the amount of negativness towards bottle-feeding in this thread, I have started a Guide Entry on bottle-feeding. (It's at A3512369 if anyone wants to take a look)

The idea of this is to 'compliment' breastfeeding Entry. I'll link breastfeeding in first paragraph of bottle-feeding Entry, and you could link bottle-feeding Entry to your paragraph at the bottom.

I've not finished it yet, few more things to add and sort out. I'll wait until yours is ready to submit to Peer Review, and submit bottle-feeding Entry at the same time if that's ok with you.

Re-microwaving bottle

I recommend you *never* microwave a baby's bottle. My friend did this, against my wishes, she insisted it would be ok - I shook bottle, tested the milk, on my wrist, it seemed fine, gave bottle to baby, who promptly screamed...I don't know, maybe the teat heated in the mircowave. It did no long term damage, and he took the bottle ok after a few mins.

Emmily

PS Edited Entries use English words, sorry, those moms, will need to be changed to mums.

Emmily

Even when you do microwave bottles, you're supposed to remove the teat first. But the reason microwaving bottles is frowned upon (at least here in the states, the pediatricians group is against it and day cares aren't allowed to) is that liquids microwaved heat unevenly -- as anyone who has drinken coffee out of the microwave without stirring it first can attest. There will be lukewarm bits and scalding hot bits, and shaking isn't enough to even them all out, so testing it on your arm doesn't help.

Would you be interested in doing the bottle-feeding one as a collaborative entry as well? I'd have thoughts on that one I'd be willing to share.

Éowyn


>"Bottle milk is a food, not a drink. Breast milk is both, because the breast milk changes consistency as the feed progresses, allowing the baby to regulate the amount of liquid he or she gets as well as the amount of food"

Interesting bit of info. I didn't know.

Emmily

The entry as it stands now is primarily to consolidate information, so we can see what has been discussed without having to trawl through the entire backlog for the pertinent points. Please pardon my ghastly American English but I had no intention of submitting it that way (and mom/mum just completely slipped by me ).

I am happy for anyone who would like to take on a particular portion and write it to do so. There are a couple of ways we can do this:
--If we keep this as a generic overview of everything concerning breastfeeding, we can use the one existing entry (completely re-edited, of course) and I can c&p everyone's contributions.
--If we expand to include as much information as we reasonably can this will quickly outgrow a single entry and become a project (I think this is the better option). In this case, we can decide how to divvy it up and anyone can volunteer to compile a specific set of information and create a new entry for it. We would tie it all together with an index page and inter-link all the entries, and it would be almost exactly like an old University Project (except for that the University is now closed).

This option would also make it easier for someone looking for specific information to find it quickly within the project.

The bottle-feeding entry is an excellent idea . I haven't looked at it yet, but certainly a fitting companion piece as there are areas where the two will collide.

Just realised a missed something I meant to add in Post #53 - Have submitted bottle-feeding entry (A3512369) to colaborate as requested.

Emmily

I've changed my mind about the link between breastfeeding and intelligence.

It is often claimed that breastfeeding can promote intelligence in the child; but a detailed study has failed to bear this out. In the June 2002 issue of 'Pediatrics' magazine, researchers examined 40 different studies of the benefits of breastfeeding. Of these, 27 claimed that breastfeeding helps the intelligence of the child. But only two of the 40 studies were performed using proper scientific controls, and of those two, only one said that intelligence is influenced. The other said that it isn't. Treat all such claims with caution.

And on the subject of gastroenteritis, studies show that breastfeeding does not affect the chances of catching gastroentiritis, which is a virus disease, but it does affect the recovery from the disease:

Journal of Family Practice, October 2003

"While breastfeeding protects against all-cause diarrhea in infants (1-5) (strength of recommendation [SOR]: B, based on cohort studies and 1 randomized controlled trial), no evidence shows that breastfeeding confers specific protection against viral gastrointestinal infections. Several studies demonstrate that breastfeeding does not prevent acquisition of rotavirus but does decrease the severity of its course (SOR: B, based on cohort, case-control studies, and a systematic review lacking homogeneity). (6-10)"

It may be that breastfed babies have better concentration, or are just more balanced through having been fed consistently and with the degree more attention to the child which breastfeeding requries.

But this is conjecture and would go against what I always say about nature vs nurture. (which is: nothing you can do to a child will affect its personality or any attributes in any way)

More likely, a mother who has decided to dedicate themselves to their baby and breast feed entirely on her own, will produce - by means of her genes, not by the act of doing the breastfeeding - a child who also thinks more deeply about things and does things themselves. This can partly be designated "intelligence" but there are many intelligent people who bottle feed and have been bottle fed to disprove this rule.

Now we are talking serious research, I would like to emphasise that the statement given here is simply a supposition based on observation.

I want another baby I want to breastfeed again

Sorry.

Sho, brilliant story (about you in the bath) - made me and brought back many special memories (mainly of expressing into a cafetiere (v conveniently sized receptacle) with hot flannels over my front)

OK here's my thoughts:

1. I breastfed 3 babies and *nobody* prepared me for the horrendous experience of the milk coming in when baby was 3/4 days old. Hormones everywhere, t*ts as large and hard as the biggest honeydew melons you've ever seen, skin stretched so taut I thought I was going to burst, it was *awful*. 24 hours later, lovely soft floppy bosoms, normal D cup, still producing 4 floz each at every feed. Books do usually mention this phenomenon, but in the following way:

"Some mothers may experience a little discomfort when the breasts start producing milk instead of colostrum"

I found this to be something of an understatement and think the entry should mention the range of possible experiences, although obviously in a reassuring and encouraging manner

2. If you eat a plateful of scrambled eggs, you will eventually smell the result in your baby's nappy. This gives you a rough idea of how long it takes for any particular food to travel from your mouth to your baby's intestine. Useful in tracking down problem foods (sprouts spring to mind).

3. Avoid satsumas and other acidic fruit as these may contribute to nappy rash.

4. If you avoided a particular food or drink during pregnancy, this may come back to haunt you when breastfeeding. *For example* I cut out tea (I don't drink coffee) completely from Week 25 in pregnancy no 2, as it gave me heartburn, and resumed my normal 10 cups a day after delivery ... not realising that number 2 had as a result been born with a zero tolerance to caffeine. She was a very unsettled baby, until the day I cut out tea, at which point she became model, 6 hours between feeds baby. I didn't drink tea again until she was weaned.

5. Advice from midwife: yes, feed on demand, but never forget that you are aiming for feeds four-hourly at four weeks old, six-hourly at six weeks old; and you should time the intervals between feeds from the time the last feed started, not when it finished (tiny babies can take an hour and a half to complete a feed). My health visitor hated me for it, but it's worth re-reading Dr Spock on this one - as he points out, if your baby is crying half an hour after finishing a feed, it's most unlikely to be hungry, and much more likely to be windy or tired. It's frowned upon now, but I *never* put my baby to the breast without checking the clock first, even a newborn. If memory serves, a breastfeed starts with the thin, thirst-quenching milk, and the fill-you-up stuff comes at the end of the feed. So if you breast feed a baby frequently and often, yes it stimulates milk production, but your baby is getting proportionally more of the thin stuff and less of the satisfying stuff ... which can create a bit of a vicious circle.

6. My babies gained weight beautifully, apart from number 3, over whom I was harrassed beyond belief by my health visitor (who was desperate for me to put him on a bottle: don't kid yourself, support for breastfeeding in the UK is close to non-existent once the midwife has signed you off) because he didn't gain according to her (bottlefed baby average) charts. After 4 weeks of stress we finally pinpointed this to my diet being insufficient in protein. When breastfeeding, eat 3 protein meals a day.

7. Every evening, number 2 would cry. And cry. And cry. And nothing would settle her except a feed, even though I *knew* she wasn't hungry. And I was right: at the end of the feed, I would sit her on my knee, and she'd look at me drunkenly with her big dark eyes ... and regurgitate the *entire* feed over our laps. After a week or two of this we gave her a dummy. She wasn't sick again. Breastfeeding is not always the answer.

8. Stopping feeding. Ideally you wean at 5/6 months straight to a beaker (IMHO - it's certainly the main reason I breastfed, to avoid the whole bottles/sterilisation thing, none of this bonding nonsense, how can you bond with something which behaves like a pig at the trough and doesn't even leave you with a hand free for the remote control?), at which point you are probably feeding 3 or 4 times a day. Cut out one middle feed, a week later cut out the second middle feed, and you are then feeding morning and night approximately 12 hours apart. Cut out the bed-time feed next, otherwise you and your baby will want to hang on to it forever, because it's just sooooo nice and comforting and a lovely way to end the day. You are then left with the morning feed, which is extremely convenient when the baby wakes up early on a Saturday morning (curl up in bed together, no need to trail downstairs to sort formula). *Then*, one night, unplanned, you get very, very, very drunk, but your partner doesn't, because that would be irresponsible - and the following morning your partner does the early shift and you get a lie-in and you've stopped breastfeeding without any emotional agony. Well, that's how I did it.

Hope this helps.

Mol

How's this coming along gals?

Egads, Mol, you and I must be cut from the same cloth!!! (now I am reminded of the "spicy chick peas for lunch followed by projectile green poo" incident. )

Here, btw (which is Germany) you don't get a health visitor, but you do the regular check up thing with your Kinderartzt (no way can I spell paediatrician properly) - and my experience of my own GP was that she was a 100% earth mother herself (we had babies within weeks of each other) and she fully 100% supported my breastfeeding.

Also did we mention that you should make sure you take in enough fluids? (caffiene free ones preferably)