h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

And - very important! - don't forget that the Americans use the euphemism "nursing". Can't say "breast" in the land of the free!

For that matter in Oklahoma it wasn't until recently (within the last year) that legislation was passed so that mothers who breast feed in public won't be arrested for indecent exposure. I wish I were kidding.

Unfortunately, it wouldn't surprise me if that were still a law in other parts of the bible belt...

On the nursing/breastfeeding thing - I didn't realise that was specifically an Americanism. I've always heard it called 'nursing', I've always called it 'nursing' just because that's what it's called. I've never given it much thought but now that I do, 'breastfeeding' seems a bit vulgar. I guess that's what a lifetime of conditioning will do to you.

I can't say that it's a problem with the word 'breast' specifically, we have breast cancer and breast augmentation. Nor would I say we have a problem with discussing breasts themselves in most polite conversation.

I would guess (just guess, I don't really know) that the term 'nursing' comes from having a 'wet nurse'. Makes perfectly logical sense.

The subject title says; 'A Guide to Breastfeeding' had it said 'A Guide to nursing' I would've expected the conversation to be about being a nurse.

Don't see what's a bit vulgar about the word breastfeeding, it's using a breast to feed baby = breastfeeding.

Emmily

I've always used the term nursing a baby for bottle feeding, holding and rocking them etc, but almost never in regard to breastfeeding.

TC: I had my Gruesomes 6 and 8 years ago, there is more of a push for breastfeeding now although they didn't seem to make much of an effort with the idle young twit in the room with me with #2. She was honestly the most idle, clueless selfish person I've ever encountered. I actually wanted to slap her, when she asked that I leave #2 in the nursery and have the nurse call me for night feeds because "I'm bottle feeding mine so I can get a good night's sleep: the nurses do it here, and my mum and grandma will do it at home so I can sleep"

Needless to say I had #2 with me 24 hours a day, and annoying her was the only reason I (briefly) considered caving in and staying in hospital for the 5 days.

Bf in public here is no big deal - it is no deal at all. In fact you're more likely to get strange sideways looks if you bottle feed a small baby.

"I'm bottle feeding mine so I can get a good night's sleep: the nurses do it here, and my mum and grandma will do it at home so I can sleep"

Sounds like someone completely removed from the reality of motherhood (and a good argument for birth control).

Okay, I've summarised some of our discussion on the page and added everyone involved to the researcher list .

I expanded on a few points that I haven't included in the thread, so I'll mention them here for further discussion:

Babies' digestive systems aren't mature enough to handle cow's milk (in reference to one of Mina's posts), and cow's milk isn't recommended until a child is more than a year old. Formulas are *not* the same as cow's milk, and for babies with lactose intolerance (one of the reasons they can't digest cow's milk) soy versions are available.

Breastfeeding cuts down on prep time and clean up, once you've established a routine. An experienced breastfeeding mom can feed virtually anywhere at the drop of a hat (I've done this in a public restroom stall during a particularly hellish car trip).

One of the reasons exhaustion is such a major factor is because of the frequency at which infants need to be fed, their absence of an internal clock, and how long it takes for these things to sort themselves out.

Inverted and flat nipples have been brought up a few times, but no mention of help for this. So I've included a small bit of information on nipple shields that I picked up from a couple of magazine articles I've read recently.

I remembered another bit of advice about sore nipples from a consultant I spoke with - when showering you shouldn't wash your nipples with soap because this will add to your discomfort. Clean water should be sufficient for clean-up, and the process of lactating is a self-cleaning process.

I added engorgement as a difficulty, I think this is what Sho was talking about (post 17) based on the remedies and cause (too much milk) she cited. Mastitis is an infection that usually requires medication.

On the baby-in-bed discussion, it occurred to me why this bothered me personally. I am a Large Person, and with that territory comes the advantage (or not) of Large Breasts. Even when I was feeding in an upright sitting position I was careful to hold part of my breast away from baby's nose while he was feeding. I can see where this would not be a concern for someone of more normal size, and having never been a person of normal size this hadn't occurred to me. From that perspective, taking baby to bed makes a little more sense. I'll still be more comfortable just getting out of bed and napping in the recliner .

I'm away for a few days again!

Don't forget to list such advantages as higher resistance to illnesses and bugs which breast-fed babies are supposed to have.

I'm not so sure about this - genes and the general attitude of the famliy also play a role, plus not mollycoddling them too much, neither with regard to keeping them warm and cosy at all times and not being too over-fussy about sterilising everything.

However, a breast-fed baby certainly benefits somehow health-wise, and it also prevents the mother getting "baby blues"

Many health benefits have been claimed for breast-fed babies. Among these are higher intelligence and less likelihood of developing obesity. The biggest health advantage, of course, is the avoidance of gastro-enteritis. Many a bottle-fed baby has had a serious set-back due to improper sterilisation of bottles. This does not happen with breastfeeding.

Hang on I think we need to list a few positive points about bottle-feeding, otherwise it's very biased and people wanting to bottle-feed may feel guilty about it when they actually have perfectly legitimate reasons.

What about babies who just won't latch on? My friend had that problem and worried herself sick that her baby wasn't getting enough food.

It's not biased to say that breastfeeding is better. All the health authorities say it is. In fact they insist that all makers of bottle feed are not allowed suggest that bottle feeding is better. Advertisements are not allowed show a small baby being bottle fed. THere's no doubt about the health benefits of breastfeeding.

There are obvious, substantiated benefits of breastfeeding. But I do think it is worthwhile to mention that those benefits do not mean that breastfeeding is the best (or only) decision for every single family.

By the way, the difference in GI infections between bottle and breastfed babies doesn't have to do with sterilization of bottles -- babies who are bottlefed breastmilk have the same decreased risk as those who are breastfed. It all comes down to the maternal antibodies that are transferred in breastmilk -- especially important during the first few months of life when an infant's own immune system isn't totally up and running yet.

Speaking of which, I think it would be worth putting something in about pumping, storing, and bottle-feeeding breastmilk -- quite a common option for mothers whose infants are going to child care while the mother works.

to be honest (and I will freely admit that I am something of a breastfeeding evangelist) I often think that babies who don't latch on are unfortunate to be around the wrong type of midwife.

It took a very graphic description and a diagram to show me exactly how breastmilk comes out - with #1 I was having all sorts of problems and my midwife very kindly and firmly told me that in her 30+ years experience of midwifery she had never ever encountered a baby that couldn't feed, but plenty of women who for one reason or another didn't get the baby/breast in the right position.

Sure, it is not very nice to keep harping on about bf - but I really don't expect a bf article to extol the virtues of bottle feeding - only to point out that it is an option and that no mother need do herself down, or let herself be criticised for not breastfeeding.

Oh sorry... bit of a soapbox issue for me

Right with you there, Sho. It's probably our common battle against the German system that makes us so vehement in our opinion. I am sure many people give up too easily. It is not an easy or painless option, but it is less hassle in the long run.

Having said that it's hard (or it was in the early 80's) to get the midwife to help you, I have heard of German mothers who accost people on the street and try and bully them into breast feeding, but I won't say I'm one of those.

OK - so, some useful stuff for the entry, seeings as we're supposed to be collaborating on it:

Here's a fun bit: (please don't take this badly, bottle-feeders)

Checklist for mothers of small babies going out for longer than the period between feeds.

Checklist for breastfeeding:

1. Baby.

Checklist for bottle feeding.

Bottle and lid, sterilised and wrapped up to keep it that way
teat, also sterilised and protected against germs
spare teat - you'll probably drop the first one.
warmer
right amount of formula
right amount of water
bib
cloth to wipe the bottle when it comes out of the warmer
about four hands to juggle all this lot
Oh, and the baby

---------------

Here is some material for the entry - just random thoughts.



OK, so you're going to breast feed your baby. It's just been born and you have heard that it should be put to the breast as soon as it comes into the world.

This isn't absolutely necessary, it will enjoy bobbing about in warm water and being bathed. It will probably have a bit of a yell to clear its lungs. And then it may well drop off. Make sure it does this on top of you, with its head near your breasts.



For a couple of days it will seem as if the wee thing has no strength and is not sucking very hard, and not even getting anything to drink at all. But hunger will drive it on, so don't give up. The baby sucking is the only stimulant your milk production gets.

The first milk - the colustrum - is thin and watery.

After a couple of days things will start to seem more like the real thing and you might start to want to weigh the little one before and after feeds.

This is not necessary, as long as s/he is growing as s/he should.



The difficult part is keeping him/her awake - very often s/he will be exhausted and satisfied after only drinking from one side, and will fall asleep, leaving you leaking on the other side.



Human milk, if pumped off and put into a bottle, will have a reddish tinge to it - not quite what we understand by the word "milk". In comparison, cow's milk, or formula milk has a blueish or yellowish tinge, and looks somewhat more appetising.


Ideally, the baby can be weaned directly from the breast to a cup at six months or slightly older, and will never need to suck at a bottle at all.



If you have a bad time at birth and decided - or were made - to stop the milk flow and go straight ahead with bottles, you can still change your mind back. Within the first 2 weeks, you will have been told to be careful and not drink too much. If you break this rule, you may suddenly find your bra getting damp. Grab the opportunity and try and persuade the baby to drink straight away.

A two-week-old may take a while to get used to the change, but shouldn't have lost his instincts. Try not to give in and put the bottle in his mounth, unless he's really desperate. As the baby's mother, you should know how much you can expect of him.

Has anyone mentioned the benefit that regular breastfeeding prevents ovulation so it acts as a natural contraceptive, so you don't have the problem of looking after a second of the little darlings while still feeding the first?

This hasn't been mentioned yet. But it is certainly not reliable. My first period came back in all cases a full ten weeks after stopping breast feeding completely (even after several weeks of just an evening feed)

But friends of mine have had their periods back quite soon, as if nothing had happened.

I always did wonder how people managed to have babies 10 months apart.

When you are still feeding the first child, the taste of the milk changes when you have your period, and they may go off it then. This is quite natural. If your period starts up after 4-6 weeks and you still want to breast feed, I don't know what to suggest.

One girl I knew was still bf her eldest at over 2 years old. He finally gave up when she got pregnant again because then the milk really did change taste so much he went off it.

And on a similar topic, a friend of mine had this really lazy and Oedipus-like tomcat who, as a kitten, insisted on feeding from his mum for three months - which is very long for a cat. He carried on being a "mummy's boy" for the rest of her life, as far as I know.

That proves to me that - among humans, too - there are those who will feel happy breastfeeding longer, and others who don't need it, either nutritionally or psychologically.

Perhaps someone has researched this. Maybe in the third world, or somewhere where they don't do things "by the book", to see what variations there are in lengths of time for breastfeeding. And if they have any bearing on the type of person the baby grows up into.

Right, about time I contributed something instead of just commenting.

First, to ... ah, what was it? Milchstau it's called in German - when you get a swelling, your breast goes hard in places, where the milk ducts are blocked. Anyway, this can lead to mastitis. I had both, but when I learned to recognise some of the mastitis symptoms, I also learned how to get read of the blockage.

First: symptoms of mastitis can be like flu symptoms. Severe headaches, aching all over and a temperature could be anything, but if you have a hard lump in your breast, it probably is a blockage.

What to do about blockage? First, it can come about because your baby has missed a feed, wasn't very hungry and didn't "empty" a breast, or other things.

There are various methods:
1) warmth and massage: some kind of oil (baby, olive, corn are all good) sparingly applied to the afflicted area, and gentle massage. The warmth can come from a (not overly) hot water bottle, or even a hair dryer (works best with a helper. Smooth the lump towards the nipple area, with firm but gentle strokes. Pressing the lump (which is the blocked milk ducts) is painful, so don't press too hard, and keep the movement going.
Afterwards it will need to be gently cooled down again.
2) Cabbage leaves: this really does work, due to some chemical reaction between your skin and (I think) the chlorophyll in the cabbage leaves. Dark green leaves are best (savoy really is uncomfortable, I used ... well, again I don't know the english name for it, Spitzkohl - it's a pointy cabbage) but white cabbage works too. Keep the cabbage in the fridge, and when needed put enough leaves to cover your breast(s) into your bra cups. Yes, it does start to smell when they warm up, and you should change them regularly to keep them cool.
3) Quark - (is this really low fat cream cheese? I think it's known as Quark in the UK as well as here). You have to put down towels or old blankets to protect your sofa/bed for this. You just take it out of the fridge and apply liberally to the affected area. Since it is messy, and you can't do anything else while you're doing it, it's best to use this if you have someone who can take care of everything else while you relax and let the cool quark work its magic. I'm not exactly sure how this works (sorry, no real time to research at the mo)

Each time this happened to me I had the most ferocious headache. Here's a laugh for those of you who have finished with the baby thing (if you haven't yet had your kids, you might want to stop reading here)

I had a rather bad tear, with #2, which required stitches. Recommended treatment from my midwife was to have a hip bath 3 or 4 times a day, for 10-15 minutes. The bath stuff was camomile, which (to me) smells like cat's wee and is brown in colour. Then after about 3 days with #2 not feeding properly (and she never has since either, and she's 6 now) I got the beginnings of mastitis. Raging headache, so I sat in the brown cat's wee, with quark on my boobs, floppy post baby belly and a plastic bag full of ice on my head. The came in and said "I've actually forgotten what you look like when you're normal"



Oh, and despite bf I got a rather horrible case of post natal depression after number 2 - which was only partly due to the baby and partly due to other stuff.

Another thing, a lot of books and advice tells you to concentrate 100% on the baby experience while you're feeding. Well, I got a bit hacked off after 6 weeks or so, so I started to read. I have never read so much in my life.

Finally, I live in the land of tea. Well, Tee actually. Herbal infusions to be precise. Here in Germany there is a tea for absolutely everything (right, TC?)

So, it was no surprise to me when I was pregnant that the midwife whipped me up a pregnancy tea (including rasperry leaves which are well known to be good for pg women). Then after I had the baby, she gave me Milchbildungstee (tea to boost your milk - production and quality). I've looked around for a recipe and this is what I came up with:

it is made with Anniseed, Fennel seeds and caraway seeds (Kümmel- I think I translated it correctly) (these help with the flow of milk, and helps to prevent blockages) and Nettle leaves (help to regulate your bodies fluids)

Of course, ask 10 midwives and you'll get 10 different recipes.

Anyway, when you stop breastfeeding (which should be done over a long, relaxing time with lots of love) you can take sage tea to help slow down the milk production.

Which means, I suppose, that you shouldn't eat/drink sage while you're breastfeeding.

Sorry, a bit all over the place, more later.

Using "lactational amenorrhea" as contraception can be relatively effective, but only if certain rules are followed relatively strictly. It has to be exclusive breastfeeding, not even pumping or anything. It has to be feeing on demand, and not scheduled. And the infant can't be given anything else to suckle, like a pacifier. And even with all that, it's far more effective for the first 6 months than it is after that. Given all of that, it's used far more effectively in developing countries than in places like the UK or US -- but I definitely do know families in the US who do this. They are generally families who are also using Natural Family Planning methods in general, and are quite often using "Attachment Parenting" strategies as well.

Here's a good link from the Harvard School of Public Health about lactational amenorrhea -- http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/Organizations/healthnet/contra/topic07.html

And here's a link to a UK site that tries to explain pretty clearly the people for whom this is and is not a viable option --
http://www.fertilityuk.org/nfps50.html#breastfeedingslug

The World Health Organization has a training program to teach health care providers to teach women about LAM -- http://www.linkagesproject.org/LAMCD/LAM.htm

right, onto bf in public.

I used to bf all over the place. I was as discreet as possible, but I never allowed myself to get pushed out of where I was because someone was uncomfortable withit.

One time in a cafe, I was in the back, and the guy sitting next to me hadn't noticed until an old bag made a fuss, the manager came up and asked me to do it in the loo. An old lady on the other side of the room had complained.

I asked if he would like to eat his lunch in there, or tell the old dear to take her sandwich in there.

Mind you, I did get a bit shakey after that one.

Generally women don't like to expose themselves in public,and as long as people aren't peering over the tops of their blouses, nobody need be disturbed - on the contrary, more people would be disturbed by a hungry crying baby than a woman holding a baby in her arms.

so a few tips from my experience.

It is easier to do it sitting down, but with a bit of practice standing up is not impossible (although when they get to about 9 months, babies are pretty heavy)

you don't have to unbutton your blouse from the top - if it is not tucked in it is easier to just pull it up from the bottom, same with sweatshirts and jumpers.

Remember not to wear a dress which zips at the back if you will be out with a bf baby...

some people like to drape a shawl, scarf or blanket to cover the baby and the breast it is feeding from - this is personal preferance, and neither of my children liked haveing a blanket near their heads so not an option for me.

If you don't want to bf in full view of everyone (and not everyone does) of if you prefer to be descrete, or someone asks you to move try to get somewhere clean and comfortable. Do not under any circumstances allow yourself to be shoved into a loo.

A friend of mine had a similar experience to mine and when the manager of a shop where she was bf her baby (department store) asked her to bf in the baby changing area (the loo) she asked if she could use his office instead. And he actually agreed.

er... that's all for now.