h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Just wondering how many people here are organic gardeners. I have to admit, my interest in organic gardening is more because it teaches you more about how plants actually work, and how the things that feed on them work. Instead of "bugs are eating my stuff! Better spray them!" You start to think about how the bugs operate.

One example off the top of my head - it's said that carrot flies can't fly higher than about 45 cm. The theory is that if you put little windbreaks around the carrots at that height, they won't get in. (I have my doubts about this though - a gust of wind might carry the wee fella up a bit! I think this is one for greenhouse conditions). But the point is I've learned a bit about what is eating the stuff.

I would use chemicals a little bit. The reason I don't is that when I spray the vulnerable crops - the seedlings - it just kills them!

I'm an organic gardener. I don't use chemicals in the garden. It takes a while for the balance between pest and predator to even out, but it works for me.

I don't use chemicals in my garden (under normal circumstances). I do have a pot of roundup always to hand, but use it maybe once every couple of years.

I certainly don't spray bugs. What will the birds and other garden visitors eat if I kill them all off? It does mean that I can't bring flowers into the house from the garden very often, because they're all covered in little black things, but I prefer to see them in the garden anyway.

It does mean that all my veggie growing efforts have failed though. Things just never grow - but it could be that I don't give them enough time, so although I'd like to grow my own a little bit - to feed the animals if nothing else, I don't bother. Herbs, yes, veg, no.

We garden organically and the garden's been chemical free for enough years to establish that balance you need. So yes, the roses get some greenfly but there are hoverflies, ladybirds and a large gang of sparrows and blue tits to keep the bugs under control.
The biggest pest problem is the slugs - which thrive in spite of the thrushes, blackbirds, hedgehogs and beer traps. So we've resorted to growing vegetables in pots with copper tape around them. That works for the tomatoes, carrots and French beans. Chard, potatoes and rhubarb all work well in the ground.
The only trouble with the pots approach is that they do need lots of watering, even in the damp Derbyshire summer

It seems to me that the idea of organic gardening has really come into its own. It seems to be the norm for a lot of people. It's probably not all that long since anyone who admitted to using organic methods was sniggered at and called a sandal wearing hippie or something.

I'm strictly an organic gardening girl Glad to hear so many other h2g2ers feel the same way.

I am new to h2g2 and feel that I may have come into this discussion a little late in the day. . .But I have been an organic gardener for many years. Yes. It does take a while for the balance between herbivores and predators to re-establish itself when you stop using chemicals. But it will happen. I was sort of surprised when I read this link because nobody mentioned the use of floating row covers. Basically, this is very lightweight polyester webbing that lies over your tender tasty broccoli, squash, or whatever, and acts as a physical barrier to insects. It is available from places like Gardener's Supply mailorder. I use 1" diameter plastic water pipe bent in an arch and stuck in the ground to support this stuff, and weight it down with pieces of flat stone and/or planks of wood. But it is light enough you can simply lay it over the little plants. You can water right through it, and it allows light and air through also. If you are using it to protect squash, you will have to hand pollinate, or just take it off after the plants have gotten big. I put it over my brassicas when I plant them and the cabbage loopers never get started because the moths cannot lay their eggs on the plants. Very useful stuff. Check it out.

Hi , welcome to h2g2!

I've used horticultural fleece before. Is this the same as the stuff you are talking about? It sounds like it. As you say, good for keeping out carrot root flies and other insects. It's also good for insulating tender plants if there's frost around.

There's other heavier stuff, like a kind of nylon mesh, which is useful as a barrier, but you'd really need to support it as it's a bit to heavy to lay on top of plants, especially small seedlings.

Nice to meet you. Is it mainly vegetables you grow?

No, I have two acres here in the town of Lebanon. Or I should say WE So far we have a vegetable garden, a raspberry patch, a small orchard with plums and apricots and espaliered apples and pears, a 64 vine vineyard for making red wine, a long wild flower garden along the street front (300'), a pond for frogs and salamanders with a wild bird garden around it, rose and day lily bed, front cottage garden, shade gardens and a terraced garden in the mound of dirt that covers the root cellar/storm cellar.
I suspect that horticultural fleece and row cover are the same thing. Row cover comes in several weights also.
Nice to meet you too. . .

Hi Healingmagichands!

Can I just say that your garden sounds wonderful, just like heaven! Can I come live with you!? But seriously, it sounds just like my dream garden.

Welcome to hootoo!

Sure you can come live here. But you have to be willing to mow lawns, dust and vacuum It truly is a wonderful garden and yard, but there is still way too much lawn to mow. We've been working on changing that situation, but of course every time you plant another garden that makes another thing to mow around.

Hi healingmagichands,
your garden sounds great! I suppose I'm an organic gardener by default - I can't be *rsed to buy and use sprays. I plant the stuff and it pretty much has to get on with it without my help. This means I've largely given up on growing cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower etc. because the slugs and little flea-looking things just destroy them. The onions and garlic seem to be hiding my carrots for now (I have purple and red-skinned ones this year - why grow something you can buy in the shops?) and my spuds seem ok.

My one exception is the rose bush in my front garden. Despite the fact that there are a lot of ladybirds there, the aphids were well and truly winning - you couldn't actually see the new growh for them. I sprayed once which reduced the numbers and the population has been small enough for the ladybirds to manage ever since. Don't need to spray the roses in the back garden as they seem well enough controlled as it is.

Metal chicken - how have the nematodes worked out?

Healingmagichands, your garden sounds wonderful. All those fruit trees If only we had the space - and the climate.

In our garden we've used horticultural fleece more for protecting tender things, like pear tree blossom, from frost damage rather than to keep the bugs away. Netting off fruit bushes has worked brilliantly for ensuring we beat the birds to the blueberries. I think a similar approach might help some of the little veggies we're trying to grow.

Kelli, the nematodes do seem to be taking effect. There's definitely less slug damage of tiny seedlings than we've had in other years - although something still ate all the sunflowers before they got a chance to get going (Is it too late to sow some more now?) The second dose of nematodes arrived yesterday so here's hoping the reinforcements do the trick.

fatkelli, I urge you to get some of the horticultural fleece in the lightest variety you can find and put it over the baby brassicas before the flea beetles or cabbage loopers find them. I have had some success with putting beer out for slugs, but what seems to work the very best is to put a short plank of wood down in the garden and then pick it up every morning and kill the slugs that have decided to use that inn for the night. Aphids die easily. When I find something that they have attacked, I go out there with my hose with a spray nozzle attached and set in on a pretty strong spray. Then I support the plant I am about to inundate with my other hand and spray the heck out of the group of aphids, washing them away. Come back a couple of days later and do the same thing and generally the problem disappears.

As we are suffering under a hosepipe ban at the moment, I don't think that would be possible, especially as the once plant that does suffer is in the front garden. I reckon the neighbours might notice me flouting the ban!

That fleece sounds good, however I really am very lazy indeed so it is easier not to grow the things that get eaten by nasties

Speaking of the hosepipe ban, I'm not enjoying all the lugging around of the watering can in the hot spell we're having in the uk at the moment I get the feeling all of my veggies are going to suffer this year

There you go; living on the opposite side of the pond I had no idea. Droughts are truly a pain for the gardener. We lived in Marin Cty CA in 1991 when we had a truly horrid drought and everyone there was under water restrictions. We were allowed to use 50 gallons (about 190 liters) of water per person per day. If you went over one month there was a substantial monetary penalty. If you were over a lot they would come and turn your water meter off. If you went to the Water Board and paid a big fine and they would turn it back on. We put a 65Gal plastic barrel behind the washing machine and ran all the laundry water into it and used a sump pump to water our veggies and flowers. If you were careful what kind of soap you used and made sure that the water had rinse water along with the wash water, it didn't seem to harm them one bit. If you were powering your hose with a sump pump would you get in trouble?

They turned your water off? In the UK it's illegal to turn off the water. Even if you never pay the bills they can't do it here, like they do for other services. If they turn it off accidentally the water companies have to pay fines to *us*.

My garden doesn't need watering - I don't grow veggies because having a wildlife garden everything just gets eaten. I do manage to grow new potatoes by accident though, as the ones that I chuck into the compost heap always seem to shoot! So I get all those free potatoes for no work at all! Well, the ones my dog doesn't dig up and eat of course. The only edible thing I grow on purpose is rhubarb, although I do grow a lot of herbs and flowers which are edible, but I tend to turn those into infused oils or infusions to drink.

Yeah, they turned it off. It sounds harsh, but was born of dire necessity. Having your water actually turned of was an action of last resort by the water district. You wouldn't get it turned off without several warnings, some large fines and chances to see the error of your wasteful ways and change them. The Marin County Water District has never bought water form any other place, and had no way to get water from another place. (Still doesn't) It is totally dependent on its own watershed and a system of 5 or 6 reservoirs that collect surface run off. There were about 250,000 people living in this county, no rain for over a year and if the water ran out the water ran out and everybody was stuck until it rained again. Period. If your water got turned off at your meter, you would not be dying of thirst, 'cause you could go buy drinking water in bottles, but you wouldn't be running your shower for hours either. The situation was so serious that there were signs in all the public WCs that explained the etiquette of when to flush or not: Yellow is mellow, brown goes down. There were regular reports in the news paper explaining how to save water. People were putting bricks or gallon milk jugs of water in their toilet tanks so that when they did flush, they used less water.

Ah, I appreciate they have to make savings, but to say it's ok to turn the water off because bottled water is available seems to be defeating the object rather. Also you can't give a baby bottled water. I do my bit by only washing up once every few days.