h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

http://www.h2g2.com/A338096

This got rejected for being fiction not fact. Which seems stupid because
a) It DOES work to reduce fear - and people do use it as such
b) Plenty of stuff in the guide is about works of fiction anyway - like, say, the Discworld entry.

Thoughts?

Hmmmm. If anything, it's a little short, but there's nothing to say that articles can't be short... as long as they're complete.

*ponders*

It would make a good part of any article on Dune, and it would make a good part of any article on prevention of fear, but I can't quite decide whether it really stands well enough alone.

That said - as far as I'm aware there isn't an (edited) article on Dune or on prevention of fear, so until one or the other is added it might as well stand by itself.

So... yeah, I think it has a place in the Guide... the question, really, is where.

26199

I would, perhaps, mention when it is said in the Dune novels, by whom, and under what circumstances.
Why, perhaps, it exists and when it is used by the Bene Gesserit.

You could also mention that the Litany Against Fear exists in the Dune film, but in a shorter version.

<BB<

If I'd seen the film...

Come to that, it's been a while since I read the book - I guess I'll go do some 'research'...

It just says:

"I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will allow my fear to pass over me and through me."

and repeats it a couple of times.

'tis done: added under variations, along with the condensed versions I've used and presumably others have.

On balance, I think info on where it is used in the book is unnecessary - entries are meant to be factual and so forth - and that is why it got rejected last time, so I'm playing safe...

Maybe - we'll see how it does.

I think the problem here is that the article is too narrowly focused. It is an entry on an aspect of a fictional world, rather than on an aspect of the real world (such as the book which contains it) which is what the edited guide is all about. That, I think, is why it was originally rejected.

I agree that the litany can be useful in the real world, but that does not really alter the argument. I am particularly partial to the Isaac Asimov quote: `Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent` but it would be better to write an article on the Foundation series itself, or its author, than to focus on such a small part of it.

I must admit, though, I am a great fan of the Dune novels. I think there is already an article in the pipeline about the David Lynch film, but there is nothing yet about the book itself. Why not have a go at that ? Then you could incorporate this article into the new piece, and it would have a much better chance of acceptance.

MDS

Hmm.

People keep suggesting I add more to this entry - this is becoming a depressingly common refrain. I was given to understand from the writing guidelines that size was not an issue... as long as the topic was well covered - and it is - fully.

I could write an entry about dune - *IF* I was really interested in Dune and *IF* I was an expert and *IF* I had the books available to me right now. But I'm not.

I could write an entry about litanies, chants, meditation and suchlike - *IF* I was interested in litanies, chants, and meditation, and *IF* I knew a lot about them, and *IF* I'd had a wide range of experience.

I could write an entry on dealing with fear - *IF* I'd been in many scary situations, and *IF* I had a large number of solutions to fear, and *IF* I had any sort of knowledge of how fear actually works in the human mind.

But I'm not. Nor do I intend to be. I'm just an average guy who's found a single technique for dealing with fear that works for me, and patently works for lots of other people too. And I want to share the benefits of that research with anyone else who can use it.

The litany is, as you say, a small aspect, and for precisely that reason it would be silly if it got into an edited entry on Dune, litanies, or fear. That's why if it is to get mentioned at all, it will have to be mentioned in an entry of it's own. If you want to write an entry on Dune, litanies, or fear, be my guest. I'll wait for it to get on the front page, and add a link. Until then...

{hmm - that was harsher than I intended...}

I think that is and was the trouble - the article is ambiguous.
The length of the article does not matter if you cover it well, but perhaps you need to explain what it is you are covering. You are not covering the book Dune, or Litanies, or fear, but perhaps you need to emphasize what it is you are covering a bit more.

By the way - if anyone finds it useful to know, the article on the film Dune is here:
http://www.h2g2.com/A443684

<BB<

'The application of the "Litany against Fear" to prevent real life fear'?

but jazzier?

Having just read the article I would concur with previous comments that what exists seems to lack context or true focus. I think it would be worth considering the possibility of making this subject one of the "Weeks Topic" entries - something like "Ways to Offset Fear and Unease" or something. The Litany can be included as a personal preference along with contributions by other Researchers on what works for them. It would be a shame to see the entry go to waste - but as it stands I don't feel it quite stands tall enough to be considered a suitable Guide Entry.

On the matter of not being an expert, not having the resources, not having the time, not having... etc. - it's simply a matter of finding a way to write from what you have and what you know. If you know a little about something, read and research to expand your knowledge and, therefore, fill out the detail in your articles. If you know a lot about something - have a look at alternative viewpoints and methods (posting to the Peer Review page is an invaluable last step in this process). If you know about one thing from a greater subject - like knowing a single line from The Bible or whatever - then either create an entry that uses the line in a way that is a self-contained subject in it's own right, or consider the possibility that you simply can't write an entry about that thing.

Do or Do Not. There is No Try. Or whatever it is the little guy says.

you're all probably right.
*looks for a button marked 'unsubmit'*

Oh - we're still stuck in the stone age, aren't we? Oh well - if anyone with the power to do so happens past, please vape this thread...

I liked this entry. It is short, but it doesn't really matter much.
Maybe it should be included how some reasearchers used it against Real Life fears? I've used it right before I have to talk in front of all the class at school.

I disagree .. I think it is a good article and should be included in the Edited Guide. The scope of the article is well defined. It is clear and sucinct. It tells you what it means to say and teaches you something.

Just becasue it is *about*& something fictional, it mentions that. The fictional world exists within our *real* world. For example, if the article was about "The Bene Gesserit- a new world religion" that would be a fictional article. One one "Bene Gesserit - Religion in Dune novels" that is a real article on a fictional subject. And the Litany is a real thing, created by a real person .. Frank HErbert ... that it was created in a fictional process is mentioned. Therefore it is a good article.

My recomendation is to include this one.

~Beeblefish

Hi Lucinda! Over at the "Design" thread (http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/F48874?thread=68237#p715735) you said you had unsubmitted this one . Now here we've got some mixed emotions. Oh, I've blown it! It was sooo close to becoming the very last conversation on Peer Review! You aimed at that, didn't you?

*smacks Bossel*

I did "unsubmit" it, before I was a scout, and before there was any idea on how unsubmission was going to work - check out a few posts earlier in the thread...

Since then, several people have said they liked it, and Beeblefish even recc'd it to TPTB - but Anna refused, saying: "This is great so far, but I get the feeling that this isn't quite finished. Litany Against Fear could be applied to, say, people who are about to do firewalking or a bungy-jump - there's a lot to be said about this phenomenon..."

Mikey recently suggested moving it to the workshop, and I've kinda kept quiet about it. Partly because I wanted to try and get to the bottom of Peer Review - but partly because I'm just uncertain. I can't see what I can add to this entry that will get past Anna's concerns, which makes moving it anywhere but the sin bin pretty pointless...

If I wasn't a Scout I'd know none of this, of course, and I'd probably remove my "unsubmission" - but a little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

* ouch! Wraps h2g2 banner around forehead and takes a deep breath...*

I'd also rather see it as introduction to something bigger, along the lines of "Ways to fight fear" or so.

Banzai!

Ok - I've updated it - it's now bigger. So there.

If any sub-editor or informed person who's wandering past would like to help me with what the HECK I should do with the markup - I'd be very happy...

Hi Lucinda,

Did you just lengthen the piece by adding that cynical 'opposite litany'? Since no one mentioned that before, and since it is somewhat loosely appended, I'm guessing you did.

IMHO, the piece was just fine, thankyou, except for that. I can *really* understand the motivation to slap in some other prefab text to meet the 'too short' complaints, and even the reasons a person would choose *that* text. The trouble is, that text has nothing to do with a meditation against fear.

I honestly thought I knew what was expected in Guide articles, and instead of getting a better and better idea, I am becoming increasingly confused. Still, the Editorial guidelines do say nothing about length. I have seen many very diminutive articles, of considerably less substance, in the Edited Guide.

I don't think you should take away from the substance, and 'feel', and *point* of your piece by adding filler. The filler at the end seemed like filler. A lot of boring facts about litanies etc. would probably also seem like filler.

A *possible* approach:
Give the text, and the example, and then do an analysis of the actual text of the litany, its symbolism, how/why it seems to work, blah, blah, and also blah. (They teach that in seminary, and it's pretty intuitive. I know you could do it.)

Take: 'Fear is the mind-killer'. What can you lift out of this line? I see Fear making *thought* impossible, but also concentration, mindfulness (awareness, being present in the moment). And why 'killer'? Fear does not just *stop* those things, it *kills* them, which suggests they do not necessarily come back when one stops being afraid. This kind of textual analysis probably comes as naturally to you as the garbledysplat you posted on the Telnet thread.

They may still call it 'fiction', but there are other literary analyses here, no?

Hope you can do something with that...

luvya
'anal, perfectionistic, over-critical, and threatening'
Arpeggio for LeKZ