A Conversation for The h2g2 Language Thing- PORTUGESE Department
PORTUGESE teaching thread
Lady Pennywhistle - Back with a vengeance! [for a certain, limited value of Vengeance; actual amounts of Vengeance may vary] Posted Feb 13, 2005
I have not forgotten the imaginary neighbour! Haowever mum isn't around, so I had to do my best with Babelfish... hope it's alright.
I've taken a bit of liberty in interpreting 'imaginary neighbour', though...
Well, let's go.
E hoje, uma históriazinha (And today, a little story).
Eu tenho um vizinho imaginário (I have an imaginary neighbour). Minha mãe não pode vê-lo, mas eu sei que existe (that bit is straight off Babelfish: my mum can't see him, but I know he exists). Seu nome é Virgílio (His name is Virgil). Agora estamos de férias semestrais, e eu e Virgílio vamos ir comprar (It is now semester break, and me and Virgil are going to go shopping). Eu vou comprar sapatos novos, e Virgílio vai comprar uma espingarda (I'm going to buy new shoes, and Virgil is going to buy a gun). Eu não sei porque o necessita; quando eu lhe pergunto sorri apenas (another one off Babelfish: I don't know why he needs it; when I ask him he just smiles).
PORTUGESE teaching thread
Dr Hell Posted Feb 14, 2005
Virgílio... What a beautiful name!
Corrections (eventually in CAPS):
"E hoje, uma históriazinha" Two things: a) You never put an accent on a vowel, if the tonic syllable is somewhere else. b) 'Historiazinha', while the correct diminutive of 'história', is rarely used like that (maybe the word is too long) people prefer to use 'pequena história' or 'história curta')
"Minha mãe não pode vê-lo, mas eu sei que ELE existe" (...but I know HE exists). While the omission is technically correct, people prefer to leave the pronoun in there, so it's clear who you're talking about.
"e eu e Virgílio vamos ir comprar" comprar is a transitive verb and demands a direct object... you have to tell us what you want to buy if you use the verb comprar. The alternative is to use 'fazer compras' (do shopping') where 'compras' (shopping) is used as a substantive.
"espingarda" This word fits the story nicely! This is a special type of gun, a small and simple version of a rifle - it is somewhat atiquated. Just in case meant something more general (like 'a gun' in the sense of 'firearm') use 'uma arma'.
"Eu não sei porque A necessita; quando eu lhe pergunto ELE APENAS sorri." The first mistake was 'A espingarda': feminine. The second one is technically correct but strange usage.
In general Brazilian Portuguese you don't omit the pronoun, like you did a few times. (I am not sure about Portugal Portuguese) Brazilians prefer to leave the pronouns in to resolve for unnecessary ambiguities.
Bablefish might be a bit biased towards Portugal...
OK... I'll think of some exercises and post them over here later on
HELL
PORTUGESE teaching thread
Lady Pennywhistle - Back with a vengeance! [for a certain, limited value of Vengeance; actual amounts of Vengeance may vary] Posted Feb 14, 2005
I think that Babelfish is probably just too literal... I had to change the phrasing of sentences (in English that is) a couple of times because the translated result didn't look right.
I don't think I should rely on Babelfish so much actually. It's fun, but it's... well, too easy, ya know?
PORTUGESE teaching thread
Dr Hell Posted Feb 14, 2005
Yah... If you wanna learn it properly, better only turn to Babel when there's no other way out.
Later... (I guess I won't make it today, LP!)
HELL
PORTUGESE teaching thread
Pdmatthew - Probably In a corner somewhere with a guitar Posted Jun 1, 2005
Ola, como esta? Sou Paul, Sou 18 anos. Sou da Escotia, moro em Angus.
Hello, How are you?, Im Paul, Im 18 Years old, I'm from Scotland, I live in Angus
Eu muinto gosto chiejo e Belgica. Tambem eu gosto Musica. Minha
I really like Cheese and Belgium. I also like music. My
namorada Adriana e brasiliera. Ela e muinto linda e intelegente.
Girlfriend Adriana is Brazillian. She is very beautiful and inteligent.
Sou estudante, na universidade de Dundee em Escocia. Tambem trabalho
Im a student, at Dundee university in Scotland. I also work
na loja de discos. Boer Noite, Ate Logo
in a record shop. Good Evening, see you later.
My apologies for my spelling, punctuation etc I've only ever spoken in portugese before I don't really write it that much.
By the way I also know numbers up to 1000, how to describe my house and my daily routine.
Paul
PORTUGESE teaching thread
Dr Hell Posted Jun 2, 2005
Aha... So let me dissect your letter.
"Ola, como esta? Sou Paul, Sou 18 anos. Sou da Escotia, moro em Angus."
Olá, como vai? (literally 'how do you go?' is more common than 'como está'). Instead of 'sou Paul' (which everybody would understand) you could write 'Me chamo Paul' which is equivalent to 'My name is' (literally 'I call myself...') - which is more common in usage. Now 'Sou 18 anos' is wrong - 'Tenho 18 anos' literally 'I have 18 years (of age)' with the (of age) omitted. 'Sou 18 anos' is typical for english-speaking people. It sounds like 'My name is '18 years''. The verb 'ser' meaning 'to be' is more serious or more literal in Portuguese. You cannot use it for example in the sense of 'I am hungry' or in general 'I have the following property...'. I am in Portuguese is almost always used like: I am equal to..., I am defined as..., this is me...
More later.
HELL
PORTUGESE teaching thread
Pdmatthew - Probably In a corner somewhere with a guitar Posted Jun 5, 2005
PORTUGESE teaching thread
Dr Hell Posted Jun 6, 2005
OK, more....
There are other orthogrphic things:
Escócia (the 't' mutating to a 'c' or vice-versa is a common thing to find in 'latin' words used by different languages)
"Eu muinto gosto chiejo e Belgica."
muito (pronounced like muinto, but written without the 'n')
queijo ('ch' is often pronounced like 'sh')
Then, as basic rule: always put the verb immediately after the pronoun! (you'll learn when you can do it the other way round in the 'advanced' course)... Oh, and the (debatably) most difficult thing about Portuguese is having to learn all the verbs with their prepositions. So 'gostar' is always 'gostar de' (like being 'fond OF'):
Eu gosto de ... (queijo, feijoada, etc...)
Você gosta de ... (musica, Frank Zappa, etc...)
"Tambem eu gosto Musica."
Would be:
"Também, eu gosto de musica."
Meaning: "Also, I like music"
Try to answer this question: "De qual música você gosta?"
(What music do you like? Note the preposition in the question!)
Then:
"Minha namorada Adriana é brasiliera. Ela é muinto linda e intelegente."
(except for the odd typo in 'inteligente' this sentence is correct!)
More later. In the meantime, as an exercise, try writing a few sentences using 'gostar de' and 'não gostar de' using different persons, (i.e. I, you, he, we...)
Later!
HELL
PORTUGESE teaching thread
Pdmatthew - Probably In a corner somewhere with a guitar Posted Jun 6, 2005
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PORTUGESE teaching thread
- 61: Lady Pennywhistle - Back with a vengeance! [for a certain, limited value of Vengeance; actual amounts of Vengeance may vary] (Feb 13, 2005)
- 62: Dr Hell (Feb 14, 2005)
- 63: Lady Pennywhistle - Back with a vengeance! [for a certain, limited value of Vengeance; actual amounts of Vengeance may vary] (Feb 14, 2005)
- 64: Dr Hell (Feb 14, 2005)
- 65: Pdmatthew - Probably In a corner somewhere with a guitar (Jun 1, 2005)
- 66: Dr Hell (Jun 2, 2005)
- 67: Pdmatthew - Probably In a corner somewhere with a guitar (Jun 5, 2005)
- 68: Dr Hell (Jun 6, 2005)
- 69: Pdmatthew - Probably In a corner somewhere with a guitar (Jun 6, 2005)
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