h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

OK, so the wounds are still fresh and all that but press hysteria aside what do we think of Sven's record as a manager of England.

Personally I think England were a bit dismal in this world cup but so what's new? Never actually beaten though, just unlucky over penalties again.
His record in terms of WLD is almost as good as that of Alf Ramsey and better than any manager in between if of not in terms of trophies won.
Is Ian Wright right to describe him as a con man (as I heard on Radio 1 this morning)?

Ian Wright is a fool. I think he's done OK - I expect Maclaren will be worse, put it that way.

He put together a team that looked good on occasions, but never quite cut it when it come to the crunch. Should he have done better with the squad he had? Maybe, but ultimately I think it's a mental thing - England never quite looked they had the confidence to beat the really good teams when it comes to the knockout stage.

sprout

Couldn't agree more, I heard on the tv news yesterday on BBC1 a bulletin where they described the 'negatives' of the Erikkson era as far outweighing the positives.
Say what? No explanation of what those negatives were nor the positives for that matter. Some of the 'negatives' are reasonably obvious admittedly but I can't really get my head round what they meant frankly.
I think you're right on the confidence thing really. There are several players in there who've won the champion's league, league titles and many cups so it's not like they're not winners for their clubs at the top level. Confidence in the England camp as a whole does look like a problem from where I'm sat.
As sort of neutral-ish person as well (I'm not a natural Englan fan having Scots parents) I must say that the English press are once more falling for their own hype. I've not noticed any big hate campaigning going on yet though, which is a refreshing change.

Well, I was in Munich in September 2001 for a game of football, and to me at least that excuses Sven for 'failing' and only getting us to 3 consecutive quarter finals of major tournaments, two of which we lost on penalties.

I certainly think that lots of pundits (Wright, Butcher, Waddle, Taylor from what I've read on the BBC Sport site so far) have got it so wrong. Butcher for example - "we are no further on from when Sven was appointed"... say what? Does he remember nothing of the Keegan or Hoddle eras at all? Taylor - "I look at the under-21 team and don't see the future", maybe, but the majority of the current team is under 27 anyway, so that's not totally relevant. Waddle - "Look at Cristiano Ronaldo, Simao (?!), Pauleta (?!). We don't have a player anything like that. Every other country has one, but we don't." - um, we do have one, at least... unfortunately he's young and has a short fuse. Is Waddle seriously suggesting that Pauleta is any good? If he is, then he's lost any credibility in my book.

For some reason the pundits also appear to think the formation is part of the problem and we should play 4-4-2... well, I'd like them to name me any top-half Premiership side who play 4-4-2 every week. I think they'd be struggling. It is true - and the pundits are right about this - that Rooney doesn't really work as a lone striker, and in that sense it's a shame that Sven didn't bite the bullet and try 4-1-4-1 with Crouch instead of Lampard, and Rooney just behind him. Unfortunately I guess he was afraid of the recriminations if he didn't play two midfielders who scored about 40 goals between them last season, and didn't take much notice of their current form.

I think Sven is the best manager since Bobby Robson - I think Venables got slightly lucky with home advantage in Euro 96, and I'm not sure why he didn't stay on afterwards. Sven's record is certainly close to Robson's, that's for sure - 3 quarter-finals for Sven, and 2 quarters and a semi for Robson (I think... my recollection of anything before 1986 is a bit hazy, and I can't remember when Robson was appointed anyway!). I also think Sven's not been helped by certain players having a nightmare tournament this time round - Lampard, for example.

I'm reasonably hopeful that the continuity from appointing McLaren will help a great deal, and maybe McLaren will appoint someone younger (Shearer? Pearce?) as his assistant to get them ready for the job in the future.

And of course who can forget the 5-1 win in Munich? The only result that compares to that in my memory as an England fan was the 4-1 win over the Dutch in Euro 96.

I also think Sven has left a reasonably young squad behind; from those who were in this squad, I would say that only Campbell, Neville, Beckham and maybe David James will be too old for the next World Cup in South Africa. So that's only four players that need replacing...

Hmm, got that off my chest. Finally.

I knew this would be the right place for a rational look at things

Terry Venables was essentially sacked as Enlgand manager because of some dodgy business venture. He was in court over it and they didn't want it distracting him - plus I guess the headlines weren't helping either. Shame I thought at the time as he did far beter than some of the credit he got for it in my book.

Sadly I've discovered that the Sun today has a picture of Christiano Ronaldo in front of a dartboard...
From the rumours it seems he may be heading away from Old Trafford, I wonder if this means a reprieve for van Nistelrooy...

Stats on England managers' records

http://www.thefa.com/England/SeniorTeam/History/Postings/2003/09/10877.htm

Hi Sprout

Thanks for the link, and here is a non footies viewpoint , for what it is worth!

Afternoon all,

The fact that we have reached Monday Afternoon ,, and as yet I have seen no post about Englands departure from the World Cup, has to say somethind about H2G2'ers - at least those in Europe.

I do not follow football, but I have watched Englands games, and will probably watch the final.

A thought on England?

They played much better after Beckhamm left the field, and after Rooney ws sent off. Thus we can assume that the remaining 10 are actually better players.

Which would be my point - the press, TV , media in general in the UK interminably discuss players ( and their scandalous wuves and girlfriends ) We forever hear about particular players who alledgedly are Englands equivalent to St George. What we don't get is dicussion of a TEAM .

When will it dawn on the 'commentators' / sports writers that football isn't a game of individuals - it is a team of 11.

Novo

My own tuppence is that SGE instilled a bit of common sense and tactical discipline after Keegan, and that's pretty much it. When it was time to earn his corn (tournament finals basically), he was found wanting.

In Japan, he did nothing to turn the tide against Brazil, and England went out. In Portugal, when Rooney went off (which, admittedly, was *terrible* luck), he put Vassell on rather than someone who would link the midfield with Michael Owen. Net result, England's midfield get swamped and they eventually lose on penalties.

And for this WC, he takes one fit striker, two struggling for fitness, and a boy. Even the Italians took more strikers than that. Also, Gerrard and Lampard just don't work together in central midfield. He should have either replaced Beckham with Gerrard on the right or dropped Lampard (imo). I don't think his team got the best out of the players. For £5m a year he should have sorted that out. Essentially he was too conservative, in terms of both tactics and players (except for Walcott).

I'd give him 5 1/2 out of 10.

"My own tuppence is that SGE instilled a bit of common sense and tactical discipline after Keegan"

After Keegan, I think Neil Warnock would have been a plus in terms of common sense and discipline.

It seems to me that Sven is tactically aware but psychologically inept. This was proven against Brazil, 2002, when the general aura of despondency after Ronaldinho's goal was far more telling than a half-arsed long ball game. The penalties on Saturday were final proof that his motivational skills are practically non-existent. Right the way through the past five years, the squad has been driven by passionate individuals such as Beckham. In Gerrard, Rooney and Ashley Cole we have probably the three most talented players in the world right now (excepting possibly Zizou), and Sven has miserably failed to build a team around them.

Another problem is his lack of bravery. It took him an awfully long time to come up with any change of formation (I think 4-5-1 would work under another coach: perseverance is the key as we proved against T&T and Ecuador). Lampard should have been dropped after the group stages, due to general ineptness, but Sven was too scared to release a 'key' man in favour of Carrick or even Jenas.

I'm glad to see the back of him. I don't think McLaren is the perfect man for the job by any means, but at least he will bring passion and motivation to the England manager's role. Tactical astuteness is all very well in the club game, but not when you only see your squad a couple of months per year.

B

Oi! Our Colin has always had plenty of common sense But I'll give you the lack of discipline, what with him getting sent off about three times last season

My word on Sven would be: pricey. But of course that is not his fault. That's the fault of the FA for stuffing his mouth with gold.

Overall he's been OK I guess. Nor particularly exciting, but better than any manager since Bobby Robson.

Better than El Tel? My arse.

B

Pfft. Because Venables was /such/ a great manager...

Sven played the percentage game and paid the penalty, (no pun intended).
Based upon a rock solid defence, (Terry was superb), he gambled on snatching a goal then stifling the game by withdrawing a striker and flooding the midfield. In this respect, taking so few strikers makes sense. This worked well for him in Italy with Lazio.

What it meant for the spectators was mind-numbingly tedious games. Gerrard and Lampard couldn't play their free-flowing club style as their defensive duties took priority.

It's unfair to criticise Beckham - he wasn't fit.

BTW, someone posted that only Zizou is better than the England midfielders. Really? Ronaldhinho, Kaka, Ballack, Deco anyone ?

I think Sven was overpaid - but we'd all take the money if it was offered, apart from that I think that over a five year period he could have developed a formation that allowed him to take advantage of both Gerrard and Lampard - he didn't.

He was handicapped by the lack of a decent goal-keeper, something that traditionally has been an English strongpoint, but his reliance on dead-ball situations showed the parcity of his imagination.

Hargeaves is an example, for the last 4 years we've been saying he was rubbish - (continental readers excepted) suddenly he's played in his correct position and we see what he has to offer. Sven seemed to think he could sling 10 good footballers on the pitch and they would naturally form the right formation. (Sorry - 9 good fottballers and Ferdinand)

"Really? Ronaldhinho, Kaka, Ballack, Deco anyone ?"

Judging on recent performances, I would say Gerrard (I never mentioned Lampard) is better than any of them. Ronaldinho hasn't tried; Kaka's distribution is suspect; Ballack can't tackle; and Deco gets a nosebleed in front of goal.

B

I think Brazil made woeful use of Ronaldinho in this world cup, he always seemed to be playing very far from goal in some sort of playmaker role which doesn't strike me as being his strength. The exception was their opening match where he played just behind the strikers and at times was as mesmerising as he can be for Barcelona.
In short, Ronaldinho had a poor world cup, not helped by the position he was given to play in - but this doesn't stop hime being the best player in the world, which he clearly is if you've seen some of his performances for Barcelona. What has Zidane done at Madrid recently?

My verdict on Eriksson is "he's done all right". Not brilliant, but fairly good- an improvement on his predecessors at anyn rate. I can't get apoplewptically worked up by England not progressing past the quarter-final of the world cup, because thjat seems to be about our standard. I'm unconvinced by McLaren, but give the man a chance.