A Conversation for Alfred the Great, King of the West Saxons
- 1
- 2
Alfred and the Navy
Bluebottle Posted Apr 21, 2000
I've a question. Who was Offa?
I need to know in connection with an article I'm planning on Southampton Castle.
Alfred and the Navy
Demon Drawer Posted Apr 21, 2000
Yes?! Good to see you've answered you own question.
Alfred and the Navy
Bluebottle Posted Apr 21, 2000
Apart from being King of Mercia (around 700s???) what did he do?
And what would he be doing in Southampton? Southampton's castle wasn't built until 1153, and Southampton didn't exist then, the Saxon town of Hamwec did, and that didn't move to Southampton until the 900s due to increased Viking raids and the fact the river Itchen silted up and Hamwec could no longer be a port...
Yet there is a lot of evidence of Offa in Southampton, yet no-one says what or why....
Hmm...
Alfred and the Navy
Demon Drawer Posted Apr 21, 2000
I'll dig some stuff out once I get home. He built the dyke to keep the Welsh out, that I do know. As for Southampton that I'll need to dig.
Trowel. Check.
Tony Robinson. Check.
Film Crew. Check.
On Time Team this week we are looking for evidence that Offa King of Mercia was here in Southampton. And what his connection is with the castle which wasn't built until about 400 years after he was here.
Alfred and the Navy
Bluebottle Posted Apr 21, 2000
Wasn't Offa the king around the time that Mercia was at it's largest? It's been a few years since I researched Saxon Britain, and I concentrated on Wessex anyway (and forgot it all ), but I think I remember that.
I'll need to go do more research again soon, I think.
Alfred and the Navy
Demon Drawer Posted Apr 21, 2000
He was in deed. He was the King that took Mercia to it's height. I'll have to dig out my Atlas of history to see just how far it got though.
Alfred and the Navy
Bluebottle Posted Apr 21, 2000
Even if Offa himself didn't stretch this far, his influence definately would have. If only I knew what they meant by having evidence of him in Southampton. Things like coins, Mercian artifacts etc would end up almost everywhere in the UK through trade anyway without anyone actually getting to Southampton. I hate vagueness in history books.
I know that Mercia went as far south as Reading at one stage, but Southampton seems a little too far south to me.
Do you have any good books on the period you recommend?
Alfred and the Navy
Demon Drawer Posted Apr 21, 2000
*Looks around office*
Not unless you want the Economic Strategies of Every Area in the UK.
I get back to you. I've only got a few histories on the royalties of the time, and one or two general things a lot of the rest I get on-line.
Alfred and the Navy
Bran the Explorer Posted May 3, 2000
Yep about Offa and Mercia - I have him coming to the throne in 757 and dying 29 July 796. He is apparently the one who was ruling when the dyke was built between Mercia and Wales, but this is not clear cut. The evidence for this is from Asser's Life of Alfred, and thus is about 100 years late. Offa was one of the Bretwalda's - rulers of Britain - in the sense that he was the preeminent king of the day, but alot of the evidence that he was the ruler of the English is based on forged charters. But it was him and his predecessor (Aethelbald) who made Mercia "great". He seems to have styled himself as an English Charlemagne - the latter actually wrote to Offa in the 790s and referred to him as a "brother king" (the letter survives).
So, he seems to have had some broad influence - but I have no idea how he could have had any direct role in Southampton ... apart from the most generalised sense. There is no actual evidence that at any time in his reign the kingdom of Wessex (in which we have Southampton), as a whole, was subject to his authority. He did strike coinage, and have some level of control over Essex, Kent, Sussex, Middlesex, and maybe some of East Anglia (but not Nrothumbria). He also tried to found a new archbishopric in Mercia at Lichfield, but this was not enduring in the end. So, he was a fairly powerful fellow ... who knows.
Hope this helps
Bran.
Alfred and the Navy
Bran the Explorer Posted May 3, 2000
P.S have a look at:
Yorke, B. Kings and Kingdoms of Early Anglo-Saxon England, London: Seaby, 1990.
Lapidge, M.; Blair, J.; Keynes, S. & Scragg, D. (Eds.). The Blackwell Encyclopaedia of Anglo-Saxon England. Oxford: Blackwell Publishers, 1999.
Kilvington, F. ‘Offa, King of the Mercians’, Albian Link, 39 (1993), pp. 9-13
Noble, F. Offa’s Dyke Reviewed. Oxford: British Archaeological Reports, British Series no.114, 1983.
Cheers
Bran.
Alfred and the Navy
Bluebottle Posted May 3, 2000
Thanks for all the info. I would assume they meant that there were coins etc found, which would be very likely as Offa was so powerful at the time. I don't think that he would have controlled Wessex by any means. I expect that Southampton was probably used as a general port by both Wessex and Mercia, especially with trade with France, and so there would be evidence of Offa using that if that is so.
What other ports were there in Saxon times?
Alfred and the Navy
Bran the Explorer Posted May 3, 2000
I reckon that there could have been Offa's coins at Southanpton (even if there was no direct Mercian trade influence) as this was one of the major ports for cross-channel trade in Anglo-Saxon England. The original settlement was used to be called Hamwic, on the river Itchen, and was a well-known "emporia" or trading settlement - but was largely depopulated by about 900, and relocated about 1km to the southwest in higher ground. Others included London, Ipswich on the Essex coast (also for cross-channel), and York.
Cheers
Bran.
Alfred and the Navy
Bluebottle Posted May 3, 2000
I seem to remember that coinage changed during Offa's time? Something to do with silver - I can't remember exactly. But Southampton apparently has the highest number of Saxon coins found in the UK...
Thanks again Bran - I have an article that so far concentrates more on the later (Norman) period of Southampton History at:
http://www.h2g2.com/A309089
but I expect I'll write an article on Saxon Hamwic sometime.
Key: Complain about this post
- 1
- 2
Alfred and the Navy
- 21: Bluebottle (Apr 21, 2000)
- 22: Bluebottle (Apr 21, 2000)
- 23: Demon Drawer (Apr 21, 2000)
- 24: Bluebottle (Apr 21, 2000)
- 25: Demon Drawer (Apr 21, 2000)
- 26: Bluebottle (Apr 21, 2000)
- 27: Demon Drawer (Apr 21, 2000)
- 28: Bluebottle (Apr 21, 2000)
- 29: Demon Drawer (Apr 21, 2000)
- 30: Bran the Explorer (May 3, 2000)
- 31: Bran the Explorer (May 3, 2000)
- 32: Bluebottle (May 3, 2000)
- 33: Bran the Explorer (May 3, 2000)
- 34: Bluebottle (May 3, 2000)
More Conversations for Alfred the Great, King of the West Saxons
Write an Entry
"The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a wholly remarkable book. It has been compiled and recompiled many times and under many different editorships. It contains contributions from countless numbers of travellers and researchers."