h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

According to SORB the phrase "within the universe" is a tautology.
When you say that something doesn't *necessarily* have to have causes in the same way that things within it do you're suggesting that there is something outside the universe, which is what I was saying.

I said God is outside the universe and doesn't have a cause. He just is, whereas everything else was caused.

Now you appear to be saying the same thing.

That wasn't well expressed. I don't mean you're saying God just is, I mean you're saying that there is SOMETHING outside the universe that caused it and that just is.

Now that's what God says about himself: "I AM". (See Genesis)

<>

No, I'm not saying that there is something outside the universe, I'm merely stating that whatever brought the universe into existence doesn't have to follow the cause/effect scenarios within it, if not least because time *within* the visible part of the universe began at the big bang. Nobody knows if this time is true of the universe as a whole.

There was no time 'before' the big bang, therefore our notions of causality do not necessarily apply.

Talking of "what god says about himself" what is going on with the big man trhese last 2000 years?

I mean if you read the OT he was appearing to and talking to people all the time (even impregnating some the old rogue). But recently he has gone all quiet.

I mean with sooo much science and scepticism around these days surely a volcal opinion from the Big G would go down like a house on fire. He could do the chat show circit, a bit more modern than flaming bushes these days.

THe big question would be though would he opt for Wossy or Parky?

or a vocal opinion even.....

The Bible tells us God is invisible.
The Bible also tells us that we cannot understand God, or find him using science.

I find the story of the tower of Babel interesting when mankind was trying to build a tower to heaven. Of course they couldn't succeed, and I think the same applies to us, even with all our science and technology.

What I find most interesting about this story is actually what God says about humanity before confusing our languages. He says if at that stage in our development we were already doing things such as building towers to heaven then further down the line nothing we set our minds to will be impossible for us. Even things like splitting the atom or flying to the moon.

However, these things will not lead us to ultimate truth, although they're wonderful.

Adam and Eve ate from the tree of KNOWLEDGE, and became wise, but this wisdom couldn't help them to understand or find God. Same goes for us.

Yeah, I know.

Do you believe the stories of Babel and Eden are literally true?

Don't know. They may be for all I know, although they seem more allegorical than literal, especially the Adam and Eve stuff. Then there is all the paleontological and geological evidence. Are we supposed to think God put loads of dinosaur bones everywhere for fun? The question of where all the 5000-odd languages in the world come from does baffle linguists. But there is definitely a spiritual message in the stories.

Yeah, mabe you could ask the Big G when he appears on Wossy....

(come on we all know Wossy is the king of chat now!)

Yeah, good idea.

So you subscribe to the idea that if God were going to make a public appearance in the UK he owuld choose Wossy as his forum?

I dunno he might feel a bit more serious and get Andy Marr to interview in on sunday morning.

<>

No, that's simply wrong. It doesn't.

<<>
No, that's simply wrong. It doesn't.>

Well, no, perhaps it doesn't.

But it does baffle me, and I speak five of the blighters!

So that's at least one linguist it baffles!

All I need to do is find one more baffled linguist and my statement will be true.

I don't think God would go on a chat show like Jonathan Ross.

A shame you haven't shown yourself as a cunning one...