h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I just can't get it at all, and I don't choose to read it. I like books I can relate to, and I also assume it's all fomuletic when it probably isn't.

Yes, you are!

Just joking... I do enjoy a good SciFi read every now and then. I haven't read many Fantasy books though.

The important thing to me, despite genre, is that the character descriptions are good - if I can't relate to the main characters, the settings in which the happenings take place make no difference what so ever.

I find SciFi interesting because some of my favourite authors are very in touch with the latest developments in space travels and such (wasn't it Arthur C Clarke who described a process for rocket fuel in one of his novels, and several decades later it became true?).

As long as the settings aren't too abstract or illogical compared with the way we live our life today, I find I get a thrill from trying to imagine if this is what the future will be like one day.

When it comes to Fantasy, even though I like a bit of magic and a hint of things that are usually regarded as supernatural, enough is enough. There is a limit to how much I can take of marvellous magical things, and many Fantasy books, in my opion, lack poorly in character development.

Arthur C. Clarke is credited with developing the idea of telecommunications satellites, too. Telstar is all his fault...

He's also a co-creator (since several authors came out with books with a similar idea at the same time, no one knows who was first) of the idea of Space Elevators. This is where you take a thin cable (monofilament?) and put a counterweight at one end, anchor the other end to the Earth, and run an elevator up and down the cable to orbit and back...works sort of like swinging a bucket on a rope.

I really like sci/fi, particularly as I think of it as a way of testing out the future before we have to live it.

My younger readers prefer fantasy to scifi. I personally dislike sword and sorcery plots. For one thing they're all too much alike. Reminds me of the romances some of the ladies are so addicted to. Same plot over and over. It's like having the same meal every evening and not realizing it because it is served on different colored plates.

The thing is that I've never read sci-fi and fantasty much because I've always assumed it's formulaic.

When I was a teenage mammoth I used to like the same plot over and over, but now I can't abide it. I wonder if it's because you like one book and don't want it to end, so you read 20 all the same?

Very likely. That would explain the fascination with several of the formulaic genres. I think the strangest one is the Arthurian genre. Amazing how many novels have been written about Arthur and Merlin, et al.

What I'm unsure of is whether or not there is something to forumlic genres which I just don't get, or whether they're read by people who don't like a change of plot?

At least with mysteries there are a large number of ways to do the deed and hopefully lots of characters with motives. Even so, it is somewhat formulaic - or can be unless the author is careful.


As to people not liking a change of plot, I suppose that's possible. But with the romances, especially the inspirationl ones, I doubt if the readers are bright enough to realize that the plot is always the same. Or that the actual craftmanship is so poor.

*sratches head with trunk*

What's an inspirational romance...

Well might you ask! They are put out by Christian publishing houses for those women who would normally read trashy romances but want something with a message. Love stories with a strong religious theme. Usually fundamentalist Christian. Many are historical - set in the 19th century. Pioneer women. That sort of thing. Facing hardships and being sustained by their faith or rescued by God. There are hundreds of them! No naughty words. No graphic sex scenes. And a lot of them are in series like the stupid sword and sourcery series.

There's such a wide range of SF/Fantasy out there. You can't lump it all together. Some of it can be really, really bad. (and yes, formulaic) and some of it is beyond brilliant. You just have to sample some to see what you like.
It's not all Captain Space Dude saves the universe with his ray gun.

Any suggestions of good starter Si-fi fantasy?

I've always enjoyed the short stories about androids by Isaac Asimov - which seem to be more about psychology than anything else, I think...

Maybe 'I, Robot' or 'Robot Dreams'?

No, not all SF is formulaic, and more than any other genre. If you like to be able to relate to characters then there's plenty of SF out there for you - a lot of SF is about putting people like us into extraordinary circumstances and trying to imagine how they'd behave.

However, I have to say that if you want to relate to characters I wouldn't go down the Asimov route. I never found him to be very good at characters - he seemed more interested in the worlds and situations he was building, and the characters seemed to be there to serve that.

Iain Banks is good at characterisation, but he is *not* a good starting point. Stephen Baxter might be a good one.

Sciece fiction and fantasy are two very different things. Which do you want to try, Woolly?

In my experience there's more formulaic fansty around than SF, possibly because it's quite easy to find yourself writting bad fantasy. You can almost see the tick list:

Young boy on farm who will turn out to be the saviour of the world - check

Old mysterious man who turns out to be ancient wizard - check

Lovable rogue/thief with a heart of gold - check

Non-descript knight - check

Girl who falls in love with boy - check

Archer who befriends boy - check

dwarfs, goblins, monsters - check check check.

Yes David Eddings, I'm looking at you.

Good summation, Kerr. I'd like to add the young girl disguised as a male so she can join the quest.

I think the author who would be a good starting point would depend on which element attracts you more: Do you place characterization first or do you want something which will make you look at an issue or a situation from a different point of view?

I've often found short stories a good entry point to an author. If you'd like to try something interesting, I'd recommend a collection of stories by David Brin. He does characters well, and his ideas will occasionally leave you sitting back going "wow" after a wild ride. He's personally very concerned with how technology affects society and personal freedoms (in a NON-shoot-em-up way), and it's frequently what he writes about.

I took a trip across New Mexico a dozen years back with a friend, and I read the stories aloud on the trip during the long stretches of not-much-to-look-at keep-the-driver-awake patches. It was great! The first story of the "Otherness" collection is good on a number of levels -- archeology involving the landfills in Los Angeles...

SC

I think that one of the appeals of fantasy is that it means you can put women into long frocks without forcing them to be barefoot and pregnant. No need to mess with that historical accuracy stuff.

I'd recommend The Wizard of Earthsea trilogy. Mind you, it starts out badly when I put it through KA's formula test:

Young boy on farm who will turn out to be the saviour of the world - check

Old mysterious man who turns out to be ancient wizard - check(ish) - he's a wizard from the off

Lovable rogue/thief with a heart of gold - nope

Non-descript knight - nope

Girl who falls in love with boy - nope - though there are a couple of dominatrix-sorceresses, though this being for children the dominatrix-stuff is well hidden

Archer who befriends boy - nope

dwarfs, goblins, monsters - nope, nope, maybe

young girl disguised as a male - nope

SF-wise - John Wyndham is ideas SF - no plot or character but a good exploration of "what if..." scenarios

Naomi Micheson - hard to find but subversive feminist SF

And, in fact, most of Ursula Le Guin's SF - rabidly political, but suitable for a mammoth.

Have you read anything by Kate Wilhelm? "Juniper Time" is one of my favourites from her.

Steven Baxter has some wild ideas, but his characterizations leave me somewhat put off. I cant put my finger on why, but even though "Titan" had a good premise, I lost connection with it towards the end. Still, an interesting read.