h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I am starting this thread with nothing in particular to say, because it is this area which is of the greatest interest to me. I was involved in the religion v. spirituality thread, but specific religions and their perspectives are becoming more prevalent there.

Nothing wrong with that, but I just felt like creating this for those like myself who enjoy dicussing the formless, the infinite; those who like to explore without edges.

Hope there are some of you out there!

I've never heard that term used before. But it is very descriptive.

Are you saying that spiritual truth is fluid? Always changing? In which case does truth even exist?

I don't know why I always equate spirituality with truth. That's probably not a good idea. But truth or the lack thereof has been on my mind lately.

Sorry about the other thread. It has gotten off topic. I'll see if I can steer it back on course.

H

You've never heard the term before because I just made it up!

Truth is immensely important to me too, but I do not think that truth and a fluid spirituality are mutually exclusive. I don't think spirituality is ever changing, but it is infinite. That of course means that we could go on exploring it, reaching out for it's edges for ever and never actually get there.

Perhaps like swimming in a vast ocean the view, the waves, the colour of the water, the temperature, and our perception and experience of it can vary enormously. Yet all are valid, true. This is what I mean by fluid.

To be able to explore truth and spirituality without seeking to turn it into one fixed and rigid thing. Because to me that immediately means the truth of it has been mislaid.

Wonderful. That's exactly how I feel. I just didn't know how to describe it. Gosh, I've missed talking to you.

It's the blind men and the elephant only more accurate. Because the elephant has definite perameters even if we can't see all of it at once. Whereas the ocean is constantly in a state of flux.

Sometimes I question if there is an absolute universal truth. If so, it is way beyond my little pea brain. That's why I become so frustrates with people who claim to know the mind of god and to have truth - which I had better agree with or else.

I've probably quoted this before, but I just love it. Joseph Campbell said once that someone who thinks he knows, doesn't know. But someone who realizes he doesn't know, knows. Or words to that effect. It's been a while.

I've missed talking to you too!

Yes, I had never quite worked out why the blindmen and the elephant didn't quite sum it up, but the fact that an elephant has form and edges would definitely explain it.

I think while none of us can see the whole truth, we can swim in truth, but this would mean that our own experience of truth could vary wildly as well, so we may end up appearing to condradict ourselves from the perspective of the finite. Truth always seems to be paradoxical.

I too really struggle with people who claim to be in possession of the truth, as it is simply not possible. A piece of the truth is not truth itself. Then of course there is the difference between personal truth, common truths, universal truth.

That is a good quote, one I find to be personally true. I have always found that it is at the point where I realise I know precisely nothing that suddenly something can become clear. I know this does not mean exactly that, but it is without doubt from a state of emptiness and unknowing that one can grow. If you think you have arrived somewhere spiritually you are effectively saying that you have not.

Sometimes truth seems incredibly simple, a place where you can be, but that does not make it describable. It is more a state of being. One thing I seem to be experiencing more and more is viewing most things from a place of love. Even here I can feel disruption, the waves on the sea, the storm raging, but there is a part of me that knows I am not really all that even if I am swimming in it, feeling it, or having it thrown at me. I can still act with love, whatever the circumstances. I always have that choice.

Right now what I'm swimming in is frustration. My energy level is very low right now and I can't concentrate. I'll get back to this is a day or so when I'm not so tired.

H

I'm sorry I have a headache and really only skimmed this conversation, but I think I caught the gist of it.
I was reading a Terry Pratchett novel a few months back and came accross a quote that I liked so much I put it on my space. I'll copy it here, because I think you both might like it.

"The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to those who think they've found it."

Hi Taralome

I like that quote.

Hypatia

That is a great quote Taralome.

I think that truth is an abstract concept. The world changes from one minute to the next so how can truth be abolute? And if it were, how on earth would we be able to understand it?

We get glimpses of something from time to time and think that we have found truth. Little moments of inspiration. Small insights. But how do we know where they come from? Is it our subconscious or a guide trying to tell us something? Or indigestion?

It's probably indigestion at least in my case.
Glad you both liked the quote (*waves to momenta-love in action*).
Although Pratchett is a comic writer, he can be rather profound at times. almost wrote profane!

Oh, by the way, Hypatia, I agree with you about Truth.
It can be an evolving thing, especially in regards to things like science.

Waves back to Taralome (why isn't there a wave smiley?)

I think Pratchett can be both!

My feeling as regards to truth is that all of it exists all the time; it is just a bit big. I mean unfinitely big. If we can accept it's size, it's flowing and ever changing mixture it can become possible to also start to see it's constancy. There are elements of the truth that remain the same. Like the sea is always salty and wet,but other variables are constantly in flux. Like the sea too ( and this analogy is going to fall down at some point, but seems to be doing rather well just now) it ebbs and flows. Or our perception of it does. Sometimes I am swimming in it, part of it, and while I may not be able to describe it to you I can converse from that place. Other times the tide is far out, and I am lucky if I can see it in the distance.

Just because we cannot see it all always doesn't mean it changes that much anyway. Perhaps it is we who change.

Yes. And when as we change, as does our perception of truth.

Agreed. There should be a wave smiley.

But isn't truth tied to time? And time is turning out to be much more complicated that we thought. And it is certainly tied to circumstance. And personal perception. So, if it is so variable, how can it be absolute at all? It seems like the only absolute is that there aren't any absolutes.

H

I love the phrase "Fluid Spirituality"

It brings to mind how spirituality is moving and changing with you throughout challenges and moods and activity. It is always there and able to create something new in opportunities and perspectives.
We can heal.
It is fluid that flows into the deepest and darkest cracks and crevices.
It lubricates and eases friction.

So sorry
I should say hello first,I just bursted in.
Hi everyone!

I see some new names to me
I am so excited to find such a lovely place.

Hi Abbi (love the brackety thing on your name, agree entirely.) V. glad you burst in also.

Oddly only yesterday I put something elsewhere about feeling as if I have a river running down my centre these days. It seems the less fixed and rigid I become the more I can contain and the less fear that is present.

Somehow opening to this fluid spirituality seems to open one to others also, to a connection both with the source (hey, that fits too! Source of river)the internal and external, and ones spiritual brothers and sisters.

Placing the comments I did elsewhere inspired others to comment on the nature of water, finding it's own way in it's own time, it carries it's own momentum, is unstoppable, yet can find it's way around any obstacle without doing any damage at all.

Excuse me ladies for butting in. Momenta,Hypatia,now Abbi, I feel very much the things you are sharing. It is awfully difficult to put into words that which arises from within, and even more difficult if you are completely new to typing! You mentioned paradox, Momenta. I always come up against that as I meditate my days around the garden.(I am working!) It seems to me that it arises out of the duality of our thinking. Can we ever arrive at a singularity whilst in the body? I just don't know. This, now is going to sound like a plug. But,no I'd just like you to look at something I posted on Speaker's Corner and see if it makes any sense in your quest.(took ages to type in!) It came from within and now will not go away. Sorry I have no idea about links so you will have to bear with My Space to get to it. You all put me to shame with your own. Frenchbean put me on to you,Hypatia. What a splendid garden you have!!

Hi Eddispond, nice to meet you.

I went looking for your thingy in speakers corner, but all there seemed to be was something about quarts and pint pots. Mind you, while infinity is something I seem able to get my head around, sadly I still struggle with technology! I have learnt a lot though, having only been on the internet a little over a year I am quite impressed with myself. Anyway, I digress.

What I really wanted to respond to was your comment on duality, and whether it is possible to move on from there while still in the physical. I would say that you can. It all depends on your mind set, and whether you need to see yourself as something separate or not. As you say, words are woefully inadequate here, so please forgive my bumbling attempts to explain myself.

If you can lose fixed views and beliefs, the notion that there is a difference between what goes on inside and outside, that there is reason for fear then it becomes eminently possible. That doesn't make it easy. I have stumbled my way towards this for more years than I care to remember, and there was one thing that I doggedly clung to that I really struggled to let go of. Yet nothing can remain. Either duality and polarity are truths or they are not.

Once I saw that this one thing was preventing me from true freedom and a vision of wholeness I knew I had no choice but to give it up. I suspect I am not being at all clear, maybe even sounding a little loopy and preachy. I don't know. But I do know that I have not long since found myself in a world that I never thought I would find, where nothing is fixed, where I am not separate, yet am somehow more uniquely me that ever before. It is everything I had hoped for.