h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I was totally stunned when reading your article, if there's one thing the church teaches it's to forgive.

Maybe the bible isn't all true, there is a hell of a lot of exageration and of course there will always be disputes about it. Is that really a reason to lay into some of the few people in this world who really care?

Yes the Catholics/Christians have had their fair share of a bloody history, that is human nature. Many of them now are kind caring people runing the homeless shelters and hospitals of this world, not judging people as right or wrong. I admit there are hypocrites in this world, but are they truly Christians?

Oh and I think you need to look at your bit about the astrologers again;

--They went to herod and asked where they could find the new born king, he said he had no idea but that when they found him they should return to Herod so that he could go and worship him too. It was only as they were leaving Jesus that an angel appeared to them in a dream telling them not to return via Herod as he wanted to kill Jesus.

--The reason Jesus was in a house when the wise men found him was because they had come from far off lands (where incedentally they probably weren't Jews meaning they could be astrologers) and had been travelling since they saw the star (which appeared at the time of Jesus' birth) so of course by the time they had arrived Joseph and Mary had found somewhere to settle down as everyone else had left. Jesus as a small babe would not have been fit for the long journey home and Mary could probably do with the rest also and child birth is no mean feat

Anyway I leave you to your beliefs and I will return to mine

Mel

I don't lay into Christians, I lay into their theology. But "some of the few people in this world who really care"?? I hope you don't mean Christians. You couldn't possibly. Christian morality is the most awful morality there is. Secular humanists and Buddhists do far better.

As for the astrologers, I suggest you read it more carefully. Granted, I presented the information wrong... I've learned quite a bit more since I wrote this thing about a year and a half ago, and I believe it is time for an edit, especially on that section.

According to Luke, the family remained in the Bethlehem area for 33 days (the purification time after childbirth is set down in Lev 12:1-8). As soon as Mary was purified, according to Luke, they went to Jerusalem, then headed back to Galilee.

According to Matt, the wise men meet the family in Bethlehem... so we can harmonize these two tales by placing their visit within the first 33 days of Jesus' life. However, when the astrologers leave, Joseph takes the family and runs off to Egypt until Herod dies. There can be no harmony here. Either the family went to Jerusalem or they didn't. Either they fled to Egypt or they didn't. At least one of these accounts is a fabrication.

The bible is a lot of chinese whispers, most of it wasn't written for a long while after Jesus death, there are bound to be a few inacuracies in a script so old.

And yes I was refering to Christians when I said some of the people who care, I don't know what your experience of them is but I know many wonderful people who are kind and caring, most of them have some belief in God and if asked would say they are Christians.

Mel

"Bound to be a few inaccuracies" - That's an understatement.

Your perspective depends on where you live, I suppose. If you came from the Bible belt part of the US, you wouldn't know anyone who wasn't Christian. So you would think that you know some very good people, and they're all Christian.. therefore, Christians are good.

It's when you apply that test to the larger population that it falls apart. Mormons are Christian, and they trade women like they were property. Most sects (Southern Baptist, Catholic, Lutheran, etc.)tell people how awful they are, and cover them with guilt and self-loathing. Jehovah's Witnesses forbid their members to seek medical care. Christian televangelists are our modern-day snake-oil salesmen.

As for personal experience, I've known many awful people who called themselves Christians. My experience has been that Christianity doesn't make people any more or less moral. There are parts of the Bible that can be used to justify slavery, homophobia, and misogyny, just for starters, and these have been used by immoral people from the time it was written until the present. Those Christians who are moral would be moral without Christianity... and in fact, they are usually secular humanists, even though they don't realize it.

Obviously I have had a different experience from you, maybe it's because I come from the UK. There are fewer TV evangelists and such, and people tend not to be quite so strict about some of the more outdated beliefs. I have several Mormon friends and while I don't agree with their beliefs I'd hardly say they traded women, in fact they are the most gentlemenly men I have met, being a woman you can get some interesting comments.

Mel

I'm not trying to make a sweeping generalization. Yes, there are Mormons who are nice people. But there are those who still engage in the equivalent of a female slave trade, and that is traceable to the very beginning of the cult. But if you say that Christians are better people, I can come up with millions of examples, through history, and even today, that contradict that. Most notable would be the behavior of the two participants in the theological debate I attended... the Christian was a smug, insulting, egocentric prat. The atheist was very professional and composed. I'd trust him to make better ethical choices than the Christian any day. You can read more about the experience here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A525944

An interesting article, it's a shame they had an idiot to represent theism, but then again, you may be biased in your view of him, unfortunatly I fear not as a lot of the US christians are a little bit scary and strange sometimes..... but that's just a UK girls opinion.

Mel