h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Well the act of cat-skinning may be frowned upon in polite circles today, but the point is that we once did skin cats, and this phrase derives from a time when cat-skinning was perfectly acceptable.

At that time, they will have had a method for skinning, and it is interesting to consider this in order to understand the derivation of this fascinating phrase.

We mustn't censor history. There are many things which went on in the past which are unacceptable today, and it is important that we continue to write about them and judge them for ourselves rather than expect nanny yikeser to do it for us.

hmm, I don't recall half as much fuss in the media when Simon Bond released his book '101 Uses for a Dead Cat'.

Having not read this Entry by not having a chance, I can't comment on its content. If it is more tongue in cheek, and written from a satirical point of view, then I believe it deserves a chance.

But, no matter how much toing and froing and deliberating is done, it is up to the Editors to decide the outcome.

>judge them for ourselves rather than expect nanny yikeser to do it for us.<

frankly Icy I'm not surprised at this comment from you, yet again designed to stir conflict. there is nothing nanny'ish about yikesing anything, the facility is there for all to use and not just for matters in PR either, Its for the eds to decide on, not for the likes of you to insult fellow researchers who have an opposing view to you.
I get seriously fed up hearing that crass arguement that something being yikesed is censorship, total twaddle frankly.
If you want a site without any sort of decent standards then frankly Hootoo is not the place for you, suggest you take alook elsewhere on the net, lots crass and pathetic sites around without civil standards.
That goes for anyone else who think having a certain level and standard of decency is some form of censorship.

ST.

This is a tricky one: to some it would be distasteful, but then we do have entries on how to skin a rabbit and in some circumstances - such as living in the wild - this information would be useful. This is factual, informative and entertaining (in the style of writing, if not the subject matter) so it's difficult to see any reason why we should exclude it from the Edited Guide - aside from concerns over taste and decency.

What I'd suggest is that the entry needs a much clearer warning or guidance to prepare readers for the content of the entry. It needs to stress more clearly in the first paragraph that the entry is not advocating mutilation of, or cruelty to, domestic animals and also note that it may cause distress to people of a sensitive disposition. This paragraph has to come at the very start of the entry.

Other than that, as I said, I can't fault it.

Good article.

Banning entries on eating cats or dogs, or skinning them for that matter, would be pure cultural imperialism.

There are several countries in the world where it is still OK to eat or skin a cat or a dog - and there is no objective reason why this is not OK. I would like to hope that h2g2 takes a wider world vision than simply a British based cringe factor.

sprout

The Entry has been reinstated and the editors have asked me to take note of Jims comment above. I'm currently re-writing the piece and updating it as I go along.

That's actually a good entry! The last line SWL, I must say, is absoloute genius.

With all the fuss over this I was expecting a list of reasons why to mutilate your neighbour's pets, but instead I'm confronted with a well written, informative, and above all entertaining entry.

Glad to see its been reinstated and we can go through the PR process properly now. Out of interest I Googled the term 'skinning a cat' last night (with all the content filters turned off) and was presented with a very graphic anatomy site that had pictures for each stage of the process. Far more distasteful than what has been written here, but not as bad as the next site I looked at, which again had photos for each stage of preparation, but this time not just for skinning a cat, but cooking one also! I wasn't sure if it was supposed to be tongue in cheek or not, but it also talked about cooking dogs and had an accompanying picture of a small dog in a microwave oven. I won't put the links on here because there really are unpleasant pictures on those sites, although, in fairness, the first site was very clear in telling people that they were looking at a site intended for trainee vets needing to learn about cat anatomy, and that the photos and descriptions were likely to cause distress to the casual web surfer. The sites did put SWL's entry into perspective though.

I have skimmed through the backlog of this conversation, but as it seems it's mostly concerned with whether or not this entry should be on site I didn't give it a thorough read through. I don't think my points have been made before, but I apologise if they have.

My major point is this section:

"try looking out for roadkill. These are unfortunate animals that have been knocked down and killed in the street by passing traffic. Using these animals arguably does the owner a favour. Instead of being presented by the mangled corpse of their precious pet, they can fondly imagine that little Tiddles has merely gone walkabout and may still return one day. However, try to look for carcasses that are not too badly mangled, as this may make the skinning process more complicated."

Cats are exempt from the Road Traffic Act, but cats killed on roads are very likely to be much-loved and wanted pets. Some owners may prefer to think of their pet happily pottering around somewhere, but the majority want to know what has happened to their pet. There is no way of knowing if the cat killed is a stray, unwanted, or the only companion of a lonely person, for whom the not knowing will be devastating. There are lots of places on the web where owners are desperately searching for news of their pets.

Even if the cat has no collar, it may still be microchipped and legally, a pet is chattel, the property of the owner, even after it has died I presume.

Although we do have an entry on skinning rabbits there is a wild population of rabbits in this country, and it's more likely that people will trap and eat them, so having an entry on skinning them is useful information.

There is no 'wild cat' in the UK - stray and feral cats are just that - cats. The same species of domestic cat that are living without owners.

I appreciate that historically skinning cats may have been something that was done out of necessity for food, but as this entry is written as a current 'how to' it may be that this argument is being used simply as a way of getting this entry onto h2g2.

I think that if you seriously want to have this entry on h2g2 you need to take the 'humour' out of the 'skinning' section, because there are lots of pet owners out there who will be horrified to find an entry such as this on the BBC - I personally find it extremely distressing and would prefer that this is not accepted into the Edited Guide without some serious changes. There is an article on the Beeb about a woman who uses dead animals in her art, but it explicitly states that she had permission to use a cat. It may be 'boring' to not be funny, but this is in no way a funny subject.

I suggest that it's rewritten to state that permission from owners *MUST* be given before anything of this kind is attempted. I would also object strongly to its acceptance into the EG without a section on disposal of 'waste', because dead animals can be a threat to public health and should not just be chucked into the dustbin. It is also illegal to bury them in most places unless they are a pet, and if you are skinning it, it's certainly not considered to be a pet.

I've just updated your entry and realised that there have been changes made while I've been writing this and some of my comments have been addressed, but I'd still like to see the other changes made.

"There is no 'wild cat' in the UK - stray and feral cats are just that - cats. The same species of domestic cat that are living without owners."

But the wild rabbit population is the same species as rabbits kept in hutches - so if you're okay witha rabbit skinning entry, then the same must hold for cats. Just because you personally consider them to only be pets and not foods doesn't make it so.

"I appreciate that historically skinning cats may have been something that was done out of necessity for food, but as this entry is written as a current 'how to' it may be that this argument is being used simply as a way of getting this entry onto h2g2. "

Historically in the UK - and currently in many other parts of the world. Unusual in the UK doesn't mean wrong.

"I think that if you seriously want to have this entry on h2g2 you need to take the 'humour' out of the 'skinning' section, because there are lots of pet owners out there who will be horrified to find an entry such as this on the BBC"

Again, I remind you that there's pet rabbit owners in the UK who could use exactly that arguement.

If you allow one, you've got to allow t'other.

I've had rabbits as well, but there is more of a tradition of eating wild rabbits than there is of eating cats. Also the tone of the rabbit entries (there are two I can find) is very different from this one. Admittedly, there is nothing about disposal in either of those, so that's an update waiting to happen.

As for them being the same species - I wasn't aware of that, I don't think that both subjects can be treated in the same way.

Wild cats are common in the North West of Scotland and are actually making a bit of a comeback. They are different from domestic cats, being a lot larger and having structural differences in the skull.

But that's neither here nor there.

>>There is no 'wild cat' in the UK<<

I'm sure the very small population of Scottish Wildcats would like to disagree on that one!

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/03/0310_050310_wildcat.html

Hmm, I think I've tried to be quite clinical in the skinning section, which IMO gives the piece a lopsided feel. Is it not the jump from the initial humour into cold description that is causing the shock? Should I rewrite the skinning part and make it humorous?

I don't think that'd go down well with some. What you need is some sort of transition that makes light of the entry, but underlines the 'seriousness' of skinning a cat.

"I've had rabbits as well, but there is more of a tradition of eating wild rabbits than there is of eating cats."

Yes *here*. That's not the case elsewhere in the world.

"Also the tone of the rabbit entries (there are two I can find) is very different from this one. Admittedly, there is nothing about disposal in either of those,"

Well, there doesn't really need to be - the entry is called 'Preparing a rabbit for table' so I think it's pretty clear what the intended disposal method is!

"As for them being the same species - I wasn't aware of that,"

Yup. Just different breeds. Like cockers and springers.

"I don't think that both subjects can be treated in the same way."

Without wishing to sound rude, just because you personally see cats and rabbits as different doesn't make it so.

Yep, one mammal that can be a pet or a pest is pretty much the same as another.

It's different because people's perception of the two animals are different, not just mine.

You don't see populations of cats living wild in the same way that you do rabbits - and most people won't see it as the same.

Still, if all you want to do is argue one point then feel free to go on with it, and pick out bits of my message to quote, but at least the author is taking my comments seriously and that's all that matters.

Actually, the only reason I picked on that point was because it was the only one I disagreed with, but still.

Thing is, the darned thing is dead. It has ceased to be. It has joined the choir .... etc. It's meat. At no point do I advocate killing a cat in order to skin it. I've gone to pains to suggest ways of acquiring a carcase.

As to why skin a cat, why not? Why build a model train out of matchsticks or climb a ludicrously big hill just because everyone else had the sense not to?

Is the EG to be more like the Enycloepaedia Galactica or an illustrated Childrens Encyclopaedia? Squeamish arguments don't really cut it for me. I can't watch TV shows showing heart transplants but they're educational and intersting. With the right voice over they might be fun too.