h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Following on from a thread in 'Ask', what defines a 'Real Man' in the 21st century?

Was this label ever valid?

I think like many such 'lbals' its just a created piece of media rubbish, for people like my lodger who've watched far too many John Wane moovies and such like If anything, and to use yet more of the awful jargon we get inflicted with thorugh the media, it is if anything I guess an 'unconstructed man/male', whatever hte heck that means

No.

Like "real music" and "real art" or even "that's not a real job".

Its a statement used to denegrate or at the very least sideline anyone or anything who the speaker does not appreciate as having desirable qualities. What they were saying was I dont like this or that about people who arent "real men".

Just because I dont like cucumber sarnies doesnt mean they are not real sandwhiches.

one love

No, the label is something for men to live up to or not. But then they're left guessing what is a real man?

Unachievable and depressing. They then turn to stereotypes and the media for the answer...John Wayne etc etc, tough guy I suppose.

But isn't the label 'Real Woman' used in the opposite way? Going against media stereotypes. Statements like: "I'm a Real Woman...not one of those skinny supermodel types"

Interesting..

<>

Are *any* labels ever valid? I don't think so. They are just used to pidgeon-hole and categorise people.

Interesting point, Alex, that Real Men tend to fit into a very tight stereotypical media image and Real Women tend to knock the same. Curious.

az

Real man and real woman have very different connotations and meanings, though.

Real Man = 'everything tough and masculine that a man should be'
Real Woman = 'normal woman living in the normal world'

Isn't a real man a person who feels they are male? Isn't it up to the individual to know their own gender?

Some people are emotionally reticent (even constipated) and do hard physical and risky things, like mend motorbikes, chop down trees, climb mountains. Some people are sensitive and emotionally verbose (even overly so) and like doing nurturing creative things, like baking cakes, making curtains and ironing. Some people like cooking, rugby, drinking beer and making lace. Some people like hurling themselves off cliffs with parachutes on and looking after babies. Some people are obsessed with their appearance and spend forever in the gym or eating lettuce. Some people don't give a monkeys about looks and live in the pub. You tell me which are male or female. Go on, guess. Well, as you may have guessed I chose these examples because I know at least one person of each gender who likes each set of options.

'Real Men'. The stern strong silent bike-mending ones. Feh. About as real as Jordan's bouncies. And admired by people about as silly as people who admire said bouncies over a real (a really real) pair.

Why should men AND women halve their emotional and creative repertoire to fit into an idiotic and very temporary construct of gender roles? In Shakespeare's day men wore embroidered pink clothes, wrote sonnets about roses, wept in public and were the head lace, knitting and woven cloth makers. Women wore plainer clothes (unless they were queen), watched bear-baiting (yes, women used to prefer the bear-baiting to the men, who prefered the theatre) and brewed beer in the back kitchen. In some cultures today women do all the heavy work on the farm and in the home and the men make each other tea and gossip. Men being strong silent warrior types is as much gibberish as women being soft emotional nurturers with no brains for business.

How does a Real Man differ from a New Man?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4435359.stm

(penultimate line)

KA:
<>

Yeah but why isn't a Real Man a normal man living in a normal world??

Just above the line referred to by Kelli.. 'a theoretical demonstration'

Good example of an oxymoron?

Definition of a 'real man' - member of genus Homo and species Sapiens (the only extant member of the genus) having X and Y sex chromosomes. Can include other combinations of X and Y (XYY - quite often psychopathic). Must also have external male secondary sexual characteristics.

Definitions of an 'unreal man' - 1. any Homo Sapiens without a Y chromosome, 2. plastic shop dummies, 3. Peter Andre (see 2.)...







turvy

>>"But isn't the label 'Real Woman' used in the opposite way? Going against media stereotypes. Statements like: "I'm a Real Woman...not one of those skinny supermodel types""

That's an interesting point, but the skinny supermodels are only a small subset of women in the media, except for people whose media exposure is largely via fashion glossies.
The skinny supermodel can only really exist as a parasite on or product of a media environment, whereas whatever people felt about the old-style real-man attributes (independence, strength, potential violence, etc.), they were attributes that didn't depend on the existence of a supportive system.

It seems to me that to be credible, the 'Real XXX' attributes may need to be ones that everyone could aspire to having not only for themselves, but which they would be happy for everyone else to have as well, even if it might make for a dull world. From that viewpoint, supermodel attributes/attitudes would be hard to describe as 'real'.

I tend to use the term 'real man' sarcastically when referring to the idiots for whom drinking, fighting and sports are the be all and end all.

I consider my self to be a man, plain and simple... I drink in moderation, enjoy sci-fi, wear glasses and I'm not afraid to cry. I also have a physical body which makes me about as real as you can get!

Hmm...

Here's a thing.

If you tell a woman she's a fantasy come true - i.e. that she is on some level not "real", but better - that's a compliment. (At least, when I've said it it's gone down well. [Insert oral sex joke if required]). Most women in my experience would not be that flattered to be told they're merely a "real woman".

By contrast, if you tell a man he's a real man - i.e. that he merely conforms to some unspecified stereotype, without exceeding it - then that's a compliment, and he'll preen a bit and be satisfied.

Do us guys aim low or what?



Speaking personally, "real woman" implies something that most women assume they already ARE.

"Real man" implies something that men aspire to - a platonic ideal that one can never truly achieve.

Oh - and obviously, real men don't eat quiche.

H.

I dont cry.

I dont cry in the same way that celibates dont have sex and tee-totallers dont drink

I tried it a few times was told it didnt suit me and now i dont really see the point of it at all?

Do I need to cry to be a man?

Or is it enough not to be afraid to do it?

Some of the 'real men' I've seen about probably can't even spell 'quiche'.

<> (Potholer)

Likewise the John Wayne/Marlborough Man 'Real Man' image is simply a small subset of how men are portrayed in the media. But skinny models are never called Real Women.

<> (Hoo)

Nice one.

<> (Hoo)

I was trying to remember that line awhile ago and the only thing that came up was 'Real men don't wear plaid' - obvious memory short circuit on my part. Of course it's dead men that don't wear plaid.


az

In reply to:

<> (Azahar)

People NEED to categorise and pigeon-hole. It's how we deal with our lives. It's the constant battle over what is and what is not acceptable.

The whole hetero-, homo- and bi-sexual debate is a case in point.

Why should people not just be "sexual" and find whatever they find attractive as attractive?

Surely to compartmentalise in this fashion as 'straight', 'gay' or 'bi' would be seen as offensive but is a highly emotive issue: The need to be seen, "scene" or unseen is so important to everyone, in case you grasp the wrong end of the stick.

Back to the point, however, as to whether there is such a thing as a Real Man. The answer, which has been referenced already, is thus:

Yes. All men are carbon-based reality models of humans. Therefore they are all 'real'; they exist.

As for a REAL man (as in the 100% bona fide example), there have been a few... And I hope for many more

<>

Goodness, really? I'm tempted to say 'speak for yourself' as I feel no personal need to categorise or pigeon-hole people. I actually spend a lot of time trying to figure out and understand people in terms of who they are - whether they behave as I deem 'acceptable' is almost beside the point. I'm more interested in understanding them. That is how I deal with people in my life.

az

Didn't Radiohead write a song about this?

She looks like the real thing,
She tastes like the real thing,
My fake plastic love,