h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"I think Blair's legacy will be dominated by Iraq. And, to a certain extent, by the PFI deals once people realise what a disaster they are. And it remains to be seen what the party funding enquiry will throw up."

I don't think Blair's legacy will be "dominated" by Iraq. I think it's more that that's what a lot of people would like. It'll be one of the most debated and picked-over aspects of his decade in office along with PFI. I also think the ID Cards issue which can be traced to his government might end up putting a black mark against his name.

"However, that aside, he leaves the country in a much better state than he found it. I think people have very short memories. To claim that nothing has changed is nothing of bizzare."

I agree. Again, I think the desire for a lot of people to paint Blair and Labour as "the same as" the Torys means intentionally-ignoring exactly where they're different and how much of a change they've made.

Incidentally, to your list of achievements I'd add Kosovo and helping put the final nail in the coffin of Milosevich's xenophobic nationalist government. It wasn't a war that went completely well and there were some dreadful mistakes but overall it was the right thing to do. The success against Milosevich and the cost of inaction in Bosnia during the years of Conservative government probably explains a lot of Blair's thinking with regard to Iraq.

The point about Iraq is that the chattering classes would love to see his legacy dominated by Iraq, but as SoRB has very saliently pointed out on another thread, the electorate has had an election since the war and the Tories still failed to reach the heady heights of Michael Foots Labour Party...

As Zagreb pointys out, the mostly right wing/centrist fourth estate have used Iraq as a very effective smokescreen to disguise exactly what this Labour Governemnt has achieved, miostly because I suspect it scares the sh*t out of them just how much they have achieved.

I doubt very much that in the mind of the general population Iraq even dominates Blair's present, never mind his legacy.

< The success against Milosevich and the cost of inaction in Bosnia during the years of Conservative government probably explains a lot of Blair's thinking with regard to Iraq.>

And now the labour Government is doing nothing about the problems in Zimbabwe. Could this be due to a) it on a different continent b) due to this there is no way it can destablise Europe(like the Bosnia problem could, possibly have done) c) there's no oil there d) even if there was oil there Dubya probably hasn't heard of the place and therefore he couldn't use 'regime change' as an excuse to get the oil and d) Zimbabwe definitely hasn't got WMD's so TB has no way of following Dubya in as TB can't go in on a 'regime change' excuse.

Though with Africa it's a case of where do you start?

"And now the labour Government is doing nothing about the problems in Zimbabwe. Could this be due to a) it on a different continent b) due to this there is no way it can destablise Europe(like the Bosnia problem could, possibly have done) c) there's no oil there d) even if there was oil there Dubya probably hasn't heard of the place and therefore he couldn't use 'regime change' as an excuse to get the oil and d) Zimbabwe definitely hasn't got WMD's so TB has no way of following Dubya in as TB can't go in on a 'regime change' excuse."

Or e) following Iraq, any attempt to actively destabilise the Mugabe government will lead to furious responses from the isolationist-right and anti-imperialist left who will both accuse Labour of going off on another of its daft crusades and not having learned the lessons of Iraq.

Of course, they may realise that the NHS and education PFI schemes are going to cripple the NHS and Schools for years to come.

The main reason why our economy looks so good on the balance books is that the money we have spent on the PFI's does not go onto the balance sheets. A very nice bit of misdirection by Brown.

Also, Blair said 'results' in Hospitals and Education are up. Well, yes, it's easy for reults to go up when you lower the requirements and this is certainly the case in education where school leavers have a lower standard of education than 10years ago. I kow some University lecturers and they are appalled at the standard of students they are getting.

And the hospital Trusts that are in the red is incredible with departments being cut to the bone is detrimental to all aras of society.

PFI is the Son of the Manse's baby not Bliar.

But Bliar said yesterday he is ultimately responsible for everything.

PFI was actaully Major's baby because he was the one who introduced it through the Skye Bridge scheme.

Granted Labour shouldn't have adopted the idea, but it wasn't their *baby*.

I think its fair to say the Conservatives would've gone in on Kosovo too. Not sure about the Liberals.

What about House of Lords reform? The Liberals would have probably gone in earlier, the Conservatives not at all. I don't know how good the result will be, but hereditary peers having legislative authority, its an outrage and it absolutely needed to go.

i must say that whay ever he is rembered for
his goverment as been 100 time better than the
tory party.



at the end of the day who ever get in power
99% of MP are in it for them selfs.


he will be rembered for iraq. but i think he as been a good pm.

I forgot that was the first one...and also the first one to go back into public hands...finally got across it free last December.



Correct, it is Labour's Bastard Foster-child.

The reason they did take it is because it hides a lot of public cash, as mentioned above, and it appears that government are improving Health and Education services by knocking down old buildings and building new ones(even if they are over-priced and not fit for purpose).

However, the, still, outrageous thing about Lords reform is that unelected bishops will still sit in the House...so not totally clean and democratic at all.

I'd need to do a lot more research than the topics worth, because we are lumbered wit hghthem anyway, but I have a feeling that a *large* proportion of the PFI's now coming to fruition were signed up to by the Tories. And in such terms that getting out of them would take much more money than it was worth.

In much the same way as Major saddled them with the dome.

I think you will find the majority of PFIs have been insisted on by Brown as a means of keeping Government public sector spending on essential infrastructure off the Government's balance sheet and within the "Rules".

The Grandaddy of all PFI's is the refurbishment of the London Underground. Destined for disaster both in terms of cost and schedule. Watch that space.

Well, of course that would be a marvelous sleight of hand by Red Ken if he could palm the blame for the TFL budget onto the government...

TFL may well be the prime customer but negotiation of the PFI or PPP is laid right at the door of the Tresury.

http://www.london.gov.uk/mayor/ppp/reportfinal.pdf

Fair enough.

It's a moot point, because we all agree they are a sh*tty idea, and I wouldn't try and defend any government policy that involved them. I was merely making the point that they may not all be this governments fault.

Oh, and we can shoot Prescott for his allowing Tesco's to take over the country as well.

Every little helps...

Have we mentioned gay rights legislation/ civil partnerships yet?

Oh, and how exactly is life now the same as it was under Thatcher the milk snatcher? Do you remember 10 million unemployed?

10 million unemployed?

You do realise that's an unemployment rate of around 28% don't you? Are you sure you're not egging the pudding a tad?