h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I am with you, here, Mikey.
Sex should come *after* getting to know someone, not before - because to me, sex is about expressing feelings one can't possibly have for a stranger!

it looks like most things have been said here already...

i think the experience of having sex tends to open people up more, making them more able to develop close relationships and understand their compatability, but this is probably only if they are ready for it.

here's another take on the situation -- saying that you "don't believe in sex before marriage" suggests that you are probably conservative and religious, and if a boy said that to me i probably wouldn't be interested in dating him.

i think marriage is a bit of an archaic practice as well, especially for the non-religious, non-socially-conscious type who is really interested in love. structuring your life around marriage even before the fact... that alone could raise lots of incompatibility issues that have nothing to do with sex.

Liz and I are married.

We havent had a wedding as such yet but we have a union that serves us. If we want it officially recognised we dont have to do much more than it takes to buy a second hand car, and if we wanted to it wouldnt have to cost us much more than the price of a second hand car.

Many people structure their marriages around their lives, which makes much more sense

one love

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Presumably people don't marry strangers. I think that having sex before marriage is yet another way of getting to know someone and one that is important enough to know about before saying I Do.

Marrying without ever having had sex with your partner must put a lot of extra stress on the 'first time', which often isn't the 'best time' for a lot of people anyhow.

az

<--- can't afford secondhand car

looks like it's been a while since anyone defended no-sex....

have we talked about how sex is fun and it makes you happy? it increases the release of dopamine and it's something that makes you focus on the present (depressives are notorious for spending little time in the present). why go through your young life not being as happy as you could be?

Yes, but after the first time, there are many, many other times, in which "technique" can be perfected! (Ideally)

The query I got from the original posting was.. not that he wanted sex on the first date, and not that he didn't want marriage (nobody should be thinking about marraige on a first date!) - but, he knew he wouldn't get his leg over at some point. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, as some people have said, sex is a hugely important part of a relationship.

There is another side to it though - about the people who have decided not to have sex before marriage, but have had sex in the past. For whatever reason, be it reaffirmation of faith, or just a change in attitude, they've decided they now want to wait. Knowing a few people who have decided this, it has changed my view slightly, and although I've never jumped into the sack quickly (I have to feel much love for someone before that), I am now thinking I may make them wait even longer I'm not religious, I'm strongly agnostic. Making that choice though does make it seem more special.

My belief has always been "how can somebody not have sex before marriage??" - it's such a big part of a relationship, it really is! What if you're not sexually compatible? (Cuz believe it or not, some people aren't - just because you've never experience it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen). And having met people I quite liked, who want to wait - it has put me off (much as the guy in the first post). Because sex is an important thing to me.


However... I've come to know somebody in my life fairly recently, whom I've become close to, we are very good friends. He has had a reaffirmation of faith, and has chosen to stay celibate until he gets married. The way I feel about him, this doesn't matter at all. He is the most important thing. It's weird, that something I thought I felt so strongly about, has paled so much in importance.

This is of course just a personal experience, but I guess it shows that people can change their minds. Another friend of mine who was going for celibacy till marraige, and had never had sex, did so when he was in a very committed relationship, though it failed to work in the end.

I guess what I'm aiming at is - don't knock it. Cuz if what you've got is that good otherwise, you'll either change your mind or they will.

Ideally people should have sex when they like.

Its your own body and you ought to be able to make your own rules or change them to suit you and the people your involved with.

Adelaide, some of us can be perfect everytime. So why wait

10/10 love

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I am pleased to hear that you're so good! Still, as Queeglesproggit said, it's a matter of preference, and I happen to think differently.

We've got so many different strands here. Sex, of course, in all the different contexts that people have sex; long-term commitment; marriage, which involves not only long-term commitment, but which also has social, legal and ecomomic implications; and binding it all together we have emotion.

The first thing to say, of course, is that each of these things mean different things to different people. I need context for a sexual encounter and wouldn't now have sex with someone that I didn't feel strong friendship for. But I know people for whom the idea of having sex with friends is positively dirty - one step off incest. The point is, that there isn't a right and a wrong, there is only what is right and wrong for you.

Sexual incompatibility takes many forms. My ex didn't like sex in the morning or the afternoon and I love daytime sex. It was a shock to realise that this actually is an incompatability, it certainly led to irritation and disagreements between us.

Don't forget that there is making love, there is having sex and there is f**king, and they can be three very different things. (There is a lot more besides, but you get the idea).

Personally, I think that lumping them all together is as dumb as lumping the different ways that you love people together. We love our friends, our siblings, our children, our partners and our parents in completely different ways. So - sex can be a one night stand, something with a dark and complex psycho-erotic charge, a comfort-f**k between friends, a pleasant way to round off an evening, something essentially recreational, or it can take deep and loving communication even deeper. I don't think it would be possible to have all of those qualities of experience with the same person.

As I said, I like some kind of social or emotional context to my sex, so no one-night stands for me, and probably no dark and complex psycho-erotic charges either. But that doesn't mean I think those things are wrong, or that I am particularly disturbed when people's sexual expression takes them in those directions.

On to marriage. I simply cannot imagine marrying someone that I had not communicated with to the limits of my ability to communicate at the time, and that therefore includes sex. On the other hand, I am not a virgin.

People have already touched on expectation here: the expectation that sex is going to be better than masturbation, the expectation that there is One True Love with whom you will be magically sexually compatable, the expectation that you will in fact get married.

It seems to me that as folks get older they tend to understand that life is varied and complex, that there are many ways of being a good and loyal person for example, that love and sex are almost infinite in their variety, and it also seems to me that it is the younger and less experienced who are more axiomatic and tend to say 'this is right' and 'this is wrong'.

I'm burbling now.

B

Good burbling

I think Love is just a namethat gets used for things that arent really love a lot of the time.

I love everyone the same way, the intensity and intimacy may beatdifferent levels from personto person but I feel it as the same thing.

I feel the same about sex. (you can tell Im a bloke Im going to compare getting sweaty to my stereo) there are different factors involved like different frequencies on a graphic equalizer. All of the things you mentioned play a part each and everytime. Its all music just different styles of sweet nusic.

Oh god Im turning into Swiss Tony. Again!

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Technique?

Perfected?

Ideally?


Sex is as natural as eating and sleeping. People who turn it into a science, attempting to perfect 'techniques' tend to miss out on the basic and intense personal joy it can give us . . . when we are open enough to follow our hearts.

az

sometimes "techniques" get in the way of listening, which is the most important part... i think that's what makes sex useful for learning about closeness and compatibility -- it's good when you pay attention to each other.

The most generous lover I ever had, as a lover, had come to the conclusion at a fairly young age that the best way to stay in a gal's bed was to make sure she was happy there.

As a result he paid a lot of attention both to what works on a general basis for most women, and also to what works on a specific basis for the particular woman he is with at the time. I am truly grateful to my predecessors and I consider my successors to be lucky gals indeed.

He didn't use any techniques as such, (though I guess there were a couple of things I hadn't come across before) but the key thing was that by focussing completely on his partner and the moment he had come to know a great deal about how women in general function physically and emotionally, and by the time we parted I can honestly say that he knew more than anyone else does about how I function physically and emotionally.

Sex is like any other skill, the quality varies depending on focus and attitude and most people get better with practice.

B

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Which is exactly my point! I may be misunderstanding, but people who advocate "try before you buy" seem to be talking about making sure ones partner is technically skilled - whereas marriage is (or should and can be) about heart - even in arranged marriages, when that develops. (Or can).
The reason I said "ideally" is because my marriage(s) didn't work out that way, but that doesn't invalidate the deal.

>> people who advocate "try before you buy" seem to be talking about making sure ones partner is technically skilled

Not me.

I personally would not marry someone I had not had sex with for another reason entirely. I would find it dishonest, almost deceitful, to marry someone I had not had sex with.

I simply cannot imagine making the commitment to marry another person that I had not communicated with to the depths of my being, as honestly and with as much respect, as I could.

That communication includes the sexual conversation which, when held on those terms, is powerful, exposing and scary as well as transforming, communicative and sharing. Compatability, in these terms, is not a matter of technical competency, but one of emotional alignment and, I was going to say, spiritual integrity.

It is clear that these words, 'communicate', 'honestly', 'respect', 'transforming', 'sharing', 'integrity' do not apply to all sexual conversations - they most certainly have not applied to all of my sexual encounters - but for me they are a core part of any relationship which could turn into a marriage.

B

Bouncy,

"Compatability, in these terms, is not a matter of technical competency, but one of emotional alignment and, I was going to say, spiritual integrity.

but you did mention spiritual integrity in the end didnt you. Its a sly little trick pretending you wont say something and them going and doing it.

I could say that people who use the rouse you didin the post above are crafty little tinkers but I wont.

Overall though

I agree with you and what's more I see no point in subjecting ones self to other peoples arbitary rules about what you and another consenting person do with your own bodies. I have had somegreat one night stands and can honestly recomend them to anyone else too. If you have the outlook where all the mills and boon, forever and ror always fiction is just that a fiction. If you reject the old story about the swan mating for life as a poorly observed falacy about a creature not even closely related to humans and take more not of the important part that sexual intercourse plays in the lives of the "higher" primates then you will be better off listening to your own bodies needs. Leaving the prudes to be prudish and setting your inner monkey free As opposed to spanking it all the time and pretending you dont

one love

Sorry that should have been adressed to ben and not bouncy