h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

morning all,

Following the latest post on the British Muslim thread , particularly SWL's link to HYS, it occurs to me that we British too are doing too much whingeing and taking too little positive action.

I find myself in great agreement with most of the HYS posts that i read.

I have said many ,many times that immigrants are welcome here , as long as they accept that they are living in a democracy ( secular )and under UK Law.

I have no tolerance of the Muslim leaders who request/demand that we change our policies to suit them, on the basis that their more radical elements get 'upset' enough to want to go around murdering people. Saying "Go Home" is pointless when some of the more militant were born here.

GO OUT AND VOTE for MP's and for COUNCILLORS

THE % TURNOUT FOR ELECTIONS AND BY -ELECTIONS IS PATHETIC

This is why we get the government we deserve !

Remember the phrase " It takes only a few good men to do nothing , for evil to triumph" - and too many of us moan but do nothing. Stand up for our democracy, make it work better, and reduce the size of the voice and demands of the rabid portion of this minority.

Novo

GO OUT AND VOTE for MP's and for COUNCILLORS

THE % TURNOUT FOR ELECTIONS AND BY -ELECTIONS IS PATHETIC

This is why we get the government we deserve !
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well said

If you can actually point out in any practical, concrete way in which voting for either of the two monolithic, corrupt, in-the-pocket of big business parties will actually benefit either me directly or the rest of the country and thus me indirectly then I'll be glad to hear how my vote will solve the problem.

And let us not get involved in the vote lib-dem/green/monster raving loony/BNP/Veritas/Anarchists for Clive Tildsley Party.

To make an actual, concrete diifference to the country you have to be voting for a party that has a chance of being elected. And preferebly not in a constituency that has a sitting majority of ten thousand and above.

Face facts. We have two parties that are effectively in the business of saying, in turn;

Party 1 - 'We have a really useless idea!'
Party 2 - 'Yeah, and we can make it even shittier!'

The other fact is that there is now a tiny minority who *actually* decide who will run the country by dint of living in 'marginal seats'. Once the Parliamentary Parties had worked that out, the rest of the country was effectively disenfranchised as they realised they could safely ignore us and concentrate on those marginals where something *might* actually change.

Thos eare the facts that Britain needs to face up to, and when we do perhaps we'll be able to realise why not just Asian youth feels impotent and disenfranchised.

So perhaps those "marginal" seats could become the engine for change. Given that the majority of comments on HYS are increasingly right-wing, an active party like UKIP or BNP targetting those seats could force the main parties to adjust their policies to steal their thunder.

Would be better if it was rational and non-racist parties Don't really want to see *any* main party adopting BNP policy to 'steal their thunder'.

And let us not get involved in the vote lib-dem/green/monster raving loony/BNP/Veritas/Anarchists for Clive Tildsley Party.

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Vote in the elections that have proportional representation then (elections for the European Parliament, and some regional bodies e.g. the GLA & Mayor in London) where votes for smaller parties do count. Additionally the turnouts for some wards in local elections is so low that it is very possible for a smaller party to get elected with a determined campaign.

>and some regional bodies e.g. the GLA & Mayor in London<



You do realise you have to live in London to be leigiblae to vote in those elecdtions, don't you?

And since they were kind enough to give me a postal vote (which was distinctly not what I asked for, I do vote as it takes no effort whatsoever (thus being commensorate with the effort made by any Party to capture my vote.

I just don't kid myself that it makes any difference. Whatsoever.

Red Ken had it right - If voting changed anything they would make it illegal.

"You do realise you have to live in London to be leigiblae to vote in those elecdtions, don't you?"

they were examples, there are other regional bodies (Welsh Assembly, Scottish Parliament, Northern Ireland Assembly) & directly elected Mayors that are elected using PR.

Hi Novo

Although I don't want Sharia law etc, just because some self-proclaimed leaders of the Muslim community *do* want it, doesn't mean I feel threatened by it. And it certainly doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Incidentally, the 'Muslim community' will include West Africans, Moroccans, Palestinians, Iraqis, Iranians , blah blah blah through to Indonesians, and no doubt the odd well-travelled Kiwi Muslim. Do you really think they are a community anyway? No doubt there are Poles, Americans, Brazilians, Italians, West Africans, Croats etc in Catholic churches every weekend, but I'd say the 'Catholic community' doesn't really exist, outside of their weekly get together.

<>

Too true, and it doesn't paint us in a good light, does it?

Morning Blues,

I think you need a new job , or perhaps a new woman - you are being very acidic of late !

<<< To make an actual, concrete diifference to the country you have to be voting for a party that has a chance of being elected. And preferebly not in a constituency that has a sitting majority of ten thousand and above. >>>

Don't you think that if turnout figures went back up into the 80 or 90% region , and if thes #new# voters starting badgering for what they want, then either of the major parties would be forced to change. Your somewhat cynical description of the present situation is precisely the result of negativity such as you display.

While parties, councillors, or MP's only have to pander to their local minorty support (usually) to stay in place, things won't change. Change is only efected ,personally, in families, or in countries, when enough 'members' start pushing for what they want.

Sitting on our collective arses and moaning won't shift the balance at all. The only other option might be a revolution , but I for one will make my views known at the ballot box- and afterwards- to whoever my MP is. I might even put myself up as a candidate in the next local elections and start undermining the present system from within!

Novo TGIF

>Your somewhat cynical description of the present situation is precisely the result of negativity such as you display.<

No it's not, I'm afraid.

I've voted. It's made damn all difference. I've seen exactly how much difference it hasn't made as Thatcher morphed into Blair without raising a sweat.

I have been disenfranchised by political parties who simply put do not care what I think, or actually do.

OK Blues, so YOU voted, so did I , but far too many ( 60% ? ) stayed at home watching TV , or something. That IMHO is why the parties and democracy is failing us all.

We are collectively leaving it to the press ( at whatever level you pitch it ) to state what so many feel, but then shrug and do nothing aboutit.

The thread on Muslims etc shows clearly, both on this Forum , and the BBc HYS board that people have strong ,and by and large balanced views, but having typed our entries what else do we do? Nothing, usually.

I believe that your cycnicism is justified, but the only way to change this is to go to local public meetings, ask questions, heckle, go to your MP's surgeries, attend any public meetings - make your views known , and felt.

I have decided to become a real Victor Meldrew and make life uncomfortable for those who have had it easy for too long.

Make it 4 X this weekend.

Novo

Aren't Muslims discouraged from voting as it plays into the hands of the West and implicitly undermines Islam?

I'm sure heard that but it might have been a non-representative hardliner giving a soundbite.

A BBC news item prior to the last election:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/vote_2005/frontpage/4511207.stm

'A fringe of Islamic thinkers in Britain argue that Islam forbids Muslims from voting for complicated theological reasons.'

That comment is countered in the piece but I'm not sure how much of that is down to pouring oil on the waters.

Well that's a lovely get out clause for the idiots with the bombs, isn't it Roymondo, but in the real world it won't wash.

I'm afraid that I find increasingly I find myself siding with those voices I hear in the pub that say;

'If you want Sharia law to apply to your family/your community/your country then you are welcome to leave (we are not, after all, forcing you to stay here) and settle in a country that has Sharia Law. There are, I believe, quite a few of them.'

Interestibnngly the Jewish community is experiencing quite a high migration rate at the moment as Britains Jews are leaving for Israel in hope of finding a country that is more in line with their spiritual thinking.

What i don't here from them is 'The sabbath should be on a Friday and we will bomb you until you make it so.' or any similar sentiments.

"I have been disenfranchised by political parties who simply put do not care what I think, or actually do"

... and exactly how many times have you contacted your elected representatives to let them know your thought on the issues of the day

I don't for one second think it's a legitimate reason for not voting, but it is a factor.

>and exactly how many times have you contacted your elected representatives to let them know your thought on the issues of the day<

As my elected representative is a fat, allegedly corrupt waste of space who comes somewhere near the bottom 10 of all MPs for hours actually sitting on the benches and yet *still* retains a majority of 10, 000+ I know for a fact he's not remotely interested in hearing my opinion. Nor in all fairness should he be because he was voted in to reflect the views of the majority of his constituents. Which by being indolent, reactionary and vaguely stupid he does remarkably well.

Although strangely I am on first names terms with an MP. Over the years he an i have enjoyed many a pint whilst discussing law and order from our different sides of the political fence. Although curiosly I agree with him more than I do the present government.

Hi Blues

Your post makes 2 points.

1 Your fat , lazy, stupid MP was voted in by the majority - of course he was, but what was your turnout % and might his position have been different if the turnout was higher ?

2 You are a drinking mate of a MP on the other side. Keep working at him , you might convert him.

Keep spreading the word

Novo

local gov? MEP?