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Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Edward the Bonobo - Gone. Posted Aug 23, 2006
they're? their!
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
BouncyBitInTheMiddle Posted Aug 24, 2006
Well, our current parties will point out that those countries that have proportional representation are not so different in government than ours in the end.
They might also call out "weak government", by which they mean coalition government. Admittedly easily destabilised, but I don't know what to say to all that. Are our current governments providing strong, long-term forward thinking policies? Hah!
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Kyra Posted Aug 24, 2006
Voting is compulsary in Australia, but we still managed to get John Howard back, by quite a margin, I think. While many people may not vote in Britain or the US (whatever the percentage) there's no reason to believe all of those who didn't vote would side with the more 'popular' (liberal) side, more likely it'd be the same percentage as those who did vote.
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Edward the Bonobo - Gone. Posted Aug 24, 2006
What puzzles me is that those who profess anti-immigrant (yes, I *will* call it that) sentiments bleat on about how immigrants don't share our culture or values. I'm completely baffled as to what they mean. My background is indigenous...yet I'd lay money that *I* don't share this culture or these values. On values in particular - people tend to talk about our democratic traditions. It seems to me that the anti-immigrant, anti-diversity, anti-human rights agenda is precisely counter to what I would regard as the best of our national values.
And as for which cricket team I support...sport bores me.
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like Posted Aug 24, 2006
>I'd lay money that *I* don't share this culture or these values<
Well, sh*t, dude. You read books, use words of over three syllables regularly and think comics are an acceptable entertainment form for adults.
Of course you don't share the same cultural values as the rest of the country.
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Effers;England. Posted Sep 20, 2006
I wondered what others thought about Home secretay's John Reid's speech today to Muslims in the east end about looking out for their children being unduly influenced by extremists?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5362052.stm
I wondered whether the high profile event was not really aimed at a the wider electorate, in terms of John Reid showing his credentials in being tough on the terror threat? It has been suggested he's keen to take over from Blair.
He couldn't have hoped for a better outcome given the ravings of a couple of the hecklers. I happen to catch it live on the radio, and heard one of them shout at one point, something along the lines of..'you are not welcome to visit Muslim areas..' So a democratically elected person who is responsible for the security of the nation has to avoid certain no-go areas of Britain. For ****sakes, what are these people on? And of course it was the number one item on the main evening news. I'm sure many moderate Muslims must equally despair of these people.
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like Posted Sep 21, 2006
So one utter bonehead was shouted at by a few other utter boneheads.
Rather like the Pope's speech last week, this was at best a calculated risk. I wonder why we never tried this on with the population of Northern Ireland during The Troubles?
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
swl Posted Sep 21, 2006
I hate conspiracy theories and I would welcome someone shooting this down in flames, but ...
Don't you think the whole thing was just a bit too pat?
Why were these known troublemakers allowed into a speech in front of an entirely invited audience? Why were they actually escorted in by a uniformed PC? Why was the only PC in the room possibly the smallest PC in the entire Police Force, faced with a huge black man? Why were so many cameras available to interview the troublemakers outside and still enough to record Reid's speech? Why did these extremists, (3 plus a photogenic child) not have their usual rentamob with them?
What has been achieved? Has the extremist cause been furthered? Or did it lend weight to Reid's later comment that "there are fanatics out there"?
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like Posted Sep 21, 2006
Of course. In fairness to the press, given the location of the 'event' it was inevitable that there would be something newsworthy going on.
Like you, I dislike conspiracy theories, but I think Robocop knew what he was up to and the inevitability of the outburst that came.
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
swl Posted Sep 21, 2006
The amazing thing is that Izzadeen is actually on the streets at all. There are hours of video footage of this guy praising terrorists and threatening violence. A BBC documentary was aired about him last year. A police report was submitted to the CPS last month, yet still he's free.
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like Posted Sep 21, 2006
Another example of everybody looking to be able to blame somebody else if it goes wrong. It's a very sensitive bit of legislation, no one is quite sure how it will operate or how Judges will react to it.
And the police saying 'a file has been submitted to the CPS' is copper code for 'we didn't want to take responsibility for nicking him so we've asked the CPS for advice'. *IF* the CPS advise he is arrested, look for it in about another month or so.
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Edward the Bonobo - Gone. Posted Sep 21, 2006
Yes, agreed that the man is a disturbing nutter.
*However* - we have to be a little cautious about how we handle laws such as 'The Glorification of Terrorism.' It's down to how close we think the link is between a hothead shouting in the steets, and someone thinking, "What a good idea! I think I'll make a bomb."
For example, I can think of a number of films that I have in my house which quite clearly glorify terrorism:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0319736/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117039/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117039/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0207198/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0408777/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086617/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056172/
Am I planning to make a bomb? Not immediately...
I agree that Izzadeen is a thoroughly despicable character. Likely he's involved - or, at least, would *like* to be involved - in all sorts of naughtiness. But is he, in practical terms, a danger? Well - given his lack of subtlety, it would hardly be effective to involve him in a serious plot, would it?
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like Posted Sep 21, 2006
You are of course correct - my comments bear the cynicism of an insider who has numerous times been assured 'this a no-blame cultuire', which is shortly accompanied by 'but this was your fault'.
The Police I know, work in a similar climate of fear. Inaction leading to little possibility of mistakes is viewed as being vastly preferable to doing something and possibly making a mistake.
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Edward the Bonobo - Gone. Posted Sep 21, 2006
The Commisioner of The Met called for an immediate report to see if any laws had been broken.#
Surely it's blindingly obvious that heckling, while inconvenient - especially with TV cameras present at a choreographed event - is not illegal? Whether or not the hecklers are breaking any other at other times is irrelevant. But presumably, given that they are well known to the police and highly visible, they'd have been arrested if they were.
(Although the police and others might judge that their continued presence on the streets is more useful, to flush out other troublemakers).
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
swl Posted Sep 21, 2006
"It's a very sensitive bit of legislation, no one is quite sure how it will operate or how Judges will react to it."
http://www.24dash.com/content/news/viewNews.php?navID=7&newsID=10721
A guy was convicted for racial abuse. No victim, one witness who didn't hear what he said.
Guilty.
Does it affect the case that he was a BNP member?
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Effers;England. Posted Sep 21, 2006
Yes I'm all in favour of hecklers enlivening often over choreographed and controlled political events. But personally I'm more impressed by those with wit and humour. I didn't hear much of that in evidence yesterday. Mostly I thought they did their case no good whatsoever with the average viewer/listener by the repeated ranting that didn't really allow for any intelligent debate. And naturally the media loved it as it just confirmed Joe Public's fears of the 'enemy within'. The vast majority of the audience behaved far more politely but I doubt they were interviwed by the media.
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like Posted Sep 21, 2006
>personally I'm more impressed by those with wit and humour. I didn't hear much of that in evidence yesterday. Mostly I thought they did their case no good whatsoever with the average viewer/listener by the repeated ranting that didn't really allow for any intelligent debate<
Well, yes, obviously John Reid was talking tosh. But what did you think of the Muslim guy? 
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Effers;England. Posted Sep 21, 2006
Okay I asked for that. You'd make a great heckler Blues.
Yes I agree though. I thought John Reid was profoundly unimpressive. And had those idiots not interrupted him, all the publicity would have been about his simple minded tosh.
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like Posted Sep 21, 2006
I think on the whole that the heckling and ranting was very ill-advised. Had Robocop's idiocy been met with a respectful but stony silence it might have impressed people more.
Key: Complain about this post
Isn't it about time the British faced facts?
- 61: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Aug 23, 2006)
- 62: BouncyBitInTheMiddle (Aug 24, 2006)
- 63: Kyra (Aug 24, 2006)
- 64: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Aug 24, 2006)
- 65: Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like (Aug 24, 2006)
- 66: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Aug 24, 2006)
- 67: Effers;England. (Sep 20, 2006)
- 68: Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like (Sep 21, 2006)
- 69: swl (Sep 21, 2006)
- 70: Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like (Sep 21, 2006)
- 71: swl (Sep 21, 2006)
- 72: Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like (Sep 21, 2006)
- 73: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Sep 21, 2006)
- 74: Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like (Sep 21, 2006)
- 75: Edward the Bonobo - Gone. (Sep 21, 2006)
- 76: swl (Sep 21, 2006)
- 77: Effers;England. (Sep 21, 2006)
- 78: Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like (Sep 21, 2006)
- 79: Effers;England. (Sep 21, 2006)
- 80: Blues Shark - For people who like this sort of thing, then this is just the sort of thing they'll like (Sep 21, 2006)
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