h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

unless you walk into the swinging ball and chain nothing is going to happen.if you saw someone doing it you would stepaside you wouldnt walk staight into it,why go looking for trouble ,you get your fingers burnt. i still stand by what i said earlier you are just a wind up merchant on a mission ,your the one who needs the ball and chain.

Hang off the personal attacks please.

There are people with medical conditions that are made worse by smoking. They do not have a choice about having these medical conditions.

As many others have said some people cannot manage to avoid the non smoking areas, in these places as smoke drifts.

So these people are not able to go into pubs or resturants.

As a result of their medical condition they cannot go into pubs or resturants.

They have no more choice about having their medical conditions that my friends who are Asian have a choice about their race. If I was no able to go to certain pubs with my Asain friends I would be disgusted of course. Fortunatly I could then compalin to the appropriate authority as such discrimination would be illegal.


Incidently the swimming pool ananolgy - swimming a pool that has been peed in will not actually do you any harm. I swim in a pool shortly after a mothers and babies swim session, I expect that the water has some urine in..I try not to think about it.

SMOKERS OF THE WORLD STAND UP FOR YOUR RIGHT TO CHOOSE!!!

Don't let your government take away your right to make a personal choice.

Sorry some times I just have to say that to stay sane.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't have the right to choose, I'm just saying that they shouldn't be able to do it in enclosed spaces which are intended for public use.

And what exactly do you mean by the "right to choose"? The right to choose to do whatever you want in places where it might harm others?

For instance I haven't passed a driving test, therefore I don't have the right to drive on a road. If I did have a car and found a field,
where I wouldn't harm anyone else - other than myself - and the owner let me - I could drive a car.

Don't I have a right to choose to go to a pub with my friends who are made ill by tobbacco smoke? What makes that less important that your right to smoke where you want?

"Incidently the swimming pool ananolgy - swimming a pool that has been peed in will not actually do you any harm. I swim in a pool shortly after a mothers and babies swim session, I expect that the water has some urine in..I try not to think about it."

Why is it no one complains about rights being infringed if signs are put up saying "no peeing in the pool"?

Or even that chemical which makes the water turn purple when you pee in it?

Yes Smoking in public places.... *reads blog*... Oops sorry I thought i'd entered a debate about smoking in public places but I see I am mistaken this is really a debate about swimming pools..

Who the hell pees in the pool anyway, it's more disgusting than smoking, and spitting and nearly as vile as men urinating on their way home from the pub.... how many of u non smokers do that???

right cards on the table time, i smoke, ive also suffered a heart attack,and needed a operation. i still smoke, iv tried to stop but cant but until law is passed to ban the sale, of cigs then i have a choice they same as the next person a CHOICE.YES OR NO, EVERYBODY IN A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY USUALLY HAS A CHOICE ,NO EXCUSES ,ITS UP TO YOU YES OR NO.YOU DO OR YOU DONT! now i think everyone should get of their soapbox.

I think that's the whole point of H2G2 is that people can get on their soapboxes and have an opinion without fear of recriminations or being told to 'get of their soapbox'

2 points:


"iv tried to stop but cant"

You can, you just haven't succeeded yet.



"EVERYBODY IN A DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY USUALLY HAS A CHOICE"

Unfortunately, this is only true of modern times. And even now, it isn't true the world over.

silversmoke:

I don't know exactly how it is in Wales, but pretty much every society has its controlled substances. For example, the sale of beer is perfectly legal where I live, but I can't buy it if I'm twelve years old, and I can't legally go walking down the street drinking a can, even if I'm absolutely sober. All sorts of products are legal for sale while having restrictions on their use. In other words, there are restrictions on our choices all over the place.

yes i know most things are controlled but the bottom line is you still have a choice, and until that choice is taken away, we will still have people who dont like having a choice, or would like restrictive choice, restrictive to their own requirements.

here they come again,

are they comin to take you away s.smoke??

One thing about a demoncratic community (not that we have one but thats another issue entierly)

You get a right to choose. You get a vote. Excellent.
One teeny drawback: So does everybody else.

All rights can be put into opposable pairs. The right to murder vs the right not to be murdered. The right to a fair trial vs the right to tyrannise. The right to smoke vs the right to be in a smoke free enviroment.

Whichever decision you make on an issue, whichever freedom you give to someone you end up restricting the opposed freedom. In a lot of instances this is clear cut: There are very few people who see the right to assault as being more important than the right not to be assaulted, thus we have laws against assault ensuring people do not get the first right by restricting the second.

When, as in this example, it is not clear cut it makes for an interesting debate. We could sit here all day saying "You can/can't smoke in condition X because that is my right" If you want to bring the argument to a conclusion you need to conclusively demonstrate that the right you are arguing for is more important than the right you are arguing against.

Thus I am trying to draw parallels between smoking and assault, as we (I hope) agree that assault is a bad thing proving the two are sufficiently similar should be enough evidence to make a belivable case for the no smoking side of the argument. If you want to undermine the argument you can do it in one of two ways (1) Show that smoking is not like assault and in fact is similar to something different or (2) Show that assault is a good thing so that by my own argument so is smoking.

As for the ball and chain analogy, suppose that I decide to stand in a crowded doorway, or suppose I gather with groups of my ball and chain weilding friends and wonder around taking up the width of any corridors we move through - you couldn't avoid us. Just like in smoking, it is not always possible to avoid you.

Oh and smoking is *much* more disgusting than peeing in the pool. The pee has a high 'ick' factor, but ultimately its just undigestable material that'll go straight through my system. The smoke on the other hand would hurt me a lot and there are people in the world who it could kill. I'd rather drink your p**s than breath your smoke, unfortunately the law only helps me avoid one of those two unpleasant scenarios.

You're not supposed to drink the pool water!

But thanks for your support on the pee in the pool analogy.

"unfortunately the law only helps me avoid one of those two unpleasant scenarios"

Which one?

drink as much as you like

I really really hope that there is a law stopping people from forcing me to drink their urine. I must admit I didn't research my facts, but if there isn't one it may be time to leave the country.

Thanks but no thanks, I'd rather not drink any. I'd rather not breath any smoke either, but it doesn't look like I'm going to get my way.

"I'd rather not breath any smoke either, but it doesn't look like I'm going to get my way."

Come on over to Winnipeg or Edmonton, Acid Override. I don't know if there's a law against peeing in the pool, but there's a whole lot of fresh air in public buildings here.