h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Morning WA

Bloody Hell, what a tragic story.....

I haven't assessed my reaction to it yet, but initially I feel conflict with head and heart,

Morning Zagreb

I fully understand your line of argument on what makes people come here, but to achieve it we would probably not only have to have fair trade and educational / political interventions but possibly topple a few governments as well. I'm sure you are not recommending that course (Iraq eg).

I stress that I am not 'moaning' as you put it. I simply cannot see how the "open door" , or, the "we can't do anything about it" atitude helps anyone - least of all the illegals who end up with no rights, no refuge, and at the mercy of pretty cruel exploitation.

It has been said that this helps the economy, ( and provides cheap food ) as if this is an excuse. I believe that is Poppycock. I am not bothered about the Aussie lass working a bar, or students earning something on the side. I AM concerned at the exploitation that we have been debating on this thread.

There has always been a black, "cash in hand" economy, and I don't think that it necesarily damaging to any country, on a macro scale, but I would VASTLY prefer to have everyone who is working, and their employers, paying taxes AND maintaining H&S rules in the workplace. Particularly the Duty of Care aspect on the part of employers.

I for one would pay twice the cockle price if it meant that those poor chinese didn't die in the dark. in the quicksands off Morecambe.

I am in the same camp as McKay I think. I really don't see why, since we all hav to pass an immmigration officer when entering the country, a better check cannot be kept, and I understand that that is part of the reasoning behind the govt's plans for electronic identification at ports and airports ASAP ( BBC News , last night)

Novo

I'll think you'll find the thirty Chinese guys stuffed in a lorry do that specifically not to have to go past an immigration officer.

Either that or those Guinness Book of Records people have some explaining to do...

sprout

Would an open borders situation where anyone could come in legally be preferable to a practically open borders situation where anyone stands a good chance of getting in illegally, then disappearing?

Trouble is soo much of this debate is deictate by Daily Mail readers harking back to a probably ficticious "Golden agen of white people in crime free villages of Britian".

Bottom line is immigration is happening, it is gonna keep happening whatever draconian policies our government or the next bring in the pander to the Daily Mail.

We *cannot* stop the movement of people.

So the question I think we should be asking is not "How do we stop immigration?" but rather "how can we make immigration *work for us*?"

EXACTLY FB



I 'thought' that was the direction of my posts.

Novo

THe problem though is that when you look at the question sensibly, and rationally, then almost any answer to the question:-

"How can we make immigration *work for us?" has an answer that *always* involes realising that immigration needs to happen and be legitimised.

The "anti" body will not counternance anything that in any was suggests that more people could come here or that those already here could stay here. Even if in the real world that is gonna happen anyway.

It depends how wide you draw a definition of the 'anti' body.
There are some people who'd like immigration to be pretty limited, if not virtually stopped, but recognise that people already here aren't going anywhere.

I think the Government are doing an excellent job in reducing the reasons for immigrants to come here. We're one of the most heavily taxed nations on earth, we're edging steadily towards a police state, electoral disenfranchisement is at a high, the BNP are more popular than ever before, emigration is growing dramatically.

Pretty soon we'll be debating the other side of this coin, from Internet Cafes in the four corners of the world.

Blues asked - "How are you going to stop it McKay? Or more to the point, how is Darling Davy going to stop it?"

I have a couple of suggestions - I would re-introduce the manning of customs offices overnight at major ports and airports.

I would resume navy board and search operations.

I would man desks at airports for all international flights.

I realise this would not stop illegal immegrants, because they come in on the back of lorries, or land on beaches overnight, but it would reduce the ammount entering the country.

I seem to recall this arguement coming up previously and the government offering the figure of 5,000 illegal immegrants - who were all Aussie barmaids who'd outstayed their permits.

As for Darling Davy, he hasn't yet asked me to join his policy group, however if he does, I will be sure to request he asks you to give us the benefits of your insights too.

Minefields

Might cut down on illegal cocklers too

McKay - all very well, but all those ideas *cost tax payers money*, and we know that doesn't go down well.

Remember the mantra of the Daily Mail - 'Cut Costs - Kill a Civil Servant (preferably today)'.

So you'll need to come up with a 'Budget neutral' idea.

Did I hear someone say 'Soylent Green'?

Given the ammount of money they're happy to waste on whatever's in the day's headlines, I'd say the money was there for all sorts of things.

There may even be enough money to resurect the British car industry.