h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Anyone else spotted this?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4753961.stm
Private companies are to be invited to compete to operate the search and rescue (SAR) helicopter services in the UK

Looks like it is motivated by the upcoming replacement of helicopters and the rising proportion of civilian rescues.

So, good, bad or indifferent? Personally I think this is another example of inappropriate application of free market principles and business models.

YOu make this privitised and instead of having 1 aim, to save people, you have two, with the second one, that of making a profit, being the more important of the two. Again, I think this is something that we as a society should spend money on, not something that should be an opportunity to make money at others expense.

On the other hand, I can fully see why the military want rid of the running costs and how they may well see this as a bit outside their remit. I can see an argument for making it a civilian emergency service.

Bothered? or not?

I thought the military justified the expense as part of their training budget.

As to the privatisation it is just another short term fix to keep debt off the Chancellors's balance sheet. Buy now pay later. But we all know nobody can borrow money more cheaply than government.

Another PFI disaster in the making and when the MacDonalds BigGreedy Rescue service or whatever it will be called can't do the job or says it can't because it wants to renegotiate the contract the forces will have to step in. Watch that space.

Is this entierly UK-Centric?

Does Air-Sea Rescue not work along with the RNLI which, as their name suggests, operates in both the UK and Ireland?

Just asking.

TRiG.

" RNLI which, as their name suggests, operates in both the UK and Ireland?"

Which part of the name Royal National Lifeboat Institution suggests they work in Ireland?

SoRB

Hmm, I can imagine some of the private company's running helicopters out to the North Sea rigs might find this interesting.

It'd probably cost the taxpayer less to keep one civilian helicopter out of a large fleet already being used in an area on standby than it does to keep an RAF unit permanently away from active operations.

And as most civilian helicopter pilots operating in those areas _are_ ex RN or RAF pilots - training wouldn't be too much of a problem.

If they were only Ukonian (wonderful word, no?) they probably wouldn't bother with the National bit, would they? Well, maybe they would. I don't know.

Having said that, the Royal Dublin Society is still going under that name. I don't know what they do, though.

TRiG.

The North Sea offshore industry is very competitive and cost aware so I can't see any commercial advantage. A chopper is either chartered to an oil company or it isn't. In the event of a civilian emergency you would compromise the safety cover of the oil companies installations if a chopper was diverted to fill an air sea rescue role.

I can't see Kinloss closing as they fly strategic missions from there so why not leave the Sea Kings there as well.

If the use of military services for civilian rescue really is good training for them, it would seem more efficient in terms of people and equipment for the military to do real rescues, for which they could be expected to be nearly ideally trained, than just practice rescues.

Even if it's evenly balanced in terms of value for money, I think there is some PR value in seeing the military doing obvious good works.

They do. Most of the SAR operations are carried out by the RAF.

Blimey, I wouldn't have thought the Royal anything operated in the Republic of Ireland!

You learn summats everyday,

Have a map of Ireland courtesy of RNLI.

http://www.rnli.org.uk/rnli_near_you/ireland/division_map

The exact page I was looking at prior to writing that post.

Oh well, that just expands the remit somewhat. So, for those in the ROI, thoughts onthis along with thoughts on whether the ROI should rely on Ukonian (I'll borrow that for now, see if I like it ) military services for their ASR?

I live in Birmingham.

About as far from the briney as its possible to get in the UK.

Why am I paying for something Im very unlikely to ever use?

Well they look after fishermen and ferries aswell as people in pleasure craft. Great let the people in ferries pay a surcharge ech time they come under the protective wings of these people and their expensive helicopters. Let the people in pleasure craft pay a subscription on their maritime insurnace because they are the ones who get the benefit not me.

As for the fishermen if they have to pay higher insurance to pay for this service being there well good and if they pass that cost onto me through the price of cod going up that's just fine.

If the upshot of these changes is a less reliable service then that's fine too. The fact is people die and while its not a pleasant fact we could spend millions or even billions more on this service and people would still die. With a less reliable service some people might think twice about pleasure trips and find a less dangerous and perhaps simpler passtime. There might be less fish caught which would be good for the fish. There might be fewer greedy people willing to take the risk of a ferry crossing just to stock up on cheap booze and ciggies.

one love

I think you might be mixing up RNLI and Air Sea Rescue or SAR, Search and Rescue. As far as know most SAR missions in UK will be flown by the RAF using Sea King helicopters. These are, I think, considered to be part of the RAF's training. But there are some private operations like the one on the tele at the moment.

RNLI is a registered charity so I assume it is spilt into a UK charity and an Eire charity but with the same organisation and training. I'll check

"I think you might be mixing up RNLI and Air Sea Rescue"
and I think you might be right But don't tell anyone will you?

Who me ?

Looks like the RNLI is a single organisation that covers UK and the Republic. This quote from the RNLI site:

"Ireland covers 43 lifeboat stations throughout Northern Ireland and the Republic, including inland stations at Enniskillen and Lough Derg. The fundraising regional office, based in Swords, covers fundraising activities for the whole of Ireland."

I assume that Eire has some military/SAR helicopters, but presumably even if so, when it comes to air/sea rescues around the island of Ireland, it makes sense to use whoever is closer, North, South, or on the Scottish/English/Welsh coast.

RNLI funds raised in Ireland are apparently spent in Ireland, but even there, I guess there is cooperation with mainland lifeboats in appropriate cases.

Does nobody think it is morally wrong for people to be making money out of running a rescue service?

This should be funded as Blicky suggests, and run by the Government.

"RNLI funds raised in Ireland ..."

I've only ever seen RNLI collection boxes on ferries. Don't know where that comes in.

I presume the various services involved (Lifeboat, Plane, Volunteer, Civilian, Military) all cooperate to some extent.

One would certainly hope so.

TRiG.

"Great let the people in ferries pay a surcharge ... ."

Everything possible should be done to encourage people to use ferries instead of planes. They're less environmentally damaging. And there's no tax on air fuel!

TRiG.