h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Just read this:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4803930.stm

Which is basically about the Govt. forging ahead with ID cards linked to passports. Charles Clarke is saying that "passports were "voluntary documents" that no-one was forced to renew" and that therefore the ID cards are also voluntary and thus Labour are not breaking any promises.

How stupid does he think I am? The passport may be voluntary but not if you want to travel outside the country they ain't. And more to the point, the ID Card is not voluntary 'by association' since I cannot choose to not have it on its own.

Seems to me of recent that the unelected upper chamber, the House of Lords is now the champion of the people and the elected chamber, the House of Commons is the undemocratic oppressor, eroding rights and liberties with scant regard for what people want.

Is it any wonder that TB and co want to get rid of the Lords.
I realise that the Lords are probably at least partly doing this to get exactly this reaction in the hope they will remain unelected.
Every poll out there, except the YouGov ones (I think), show that people do not want compulsory ID cards and that they consider linking them to the Passport to be effectively making them compulsory. We're going to get them cos the Commons will no doubt use the parliament act to push it through.

But it does strike me that all the tools and acts and institutions that were developed supposedly to represent and protect the people from the unelected overlords are being abused to do exactly the opposite to their intended use (or atleast, stated use).

I realise this is a bit of a rant. Anyone care to put my mind at ease?

Would if I could...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4800490.stm

Hi Both

I am currently applying for a passport so that I can avoid the ID card for as long as possible. If I get one this year it will expire in 2016 and I may not get another (we very rarely go abroad!) for a few years.

My last 10-year one expired in 1992 and only now am I getting another.

I agree with your assesment Icotan. It's not as if the Govt. doesn't know a great deal about us already and as kelli notes in the link the Oyster card in Nodnol tracks citizens already.

For Charles Clarke to say that the ID card is not compulsory is a great example of sophistry

As the Vogon guard pointed out "resistance is useless".

turvy

As current plans stand, there is a loophole in the system by which you can get a passport renewed but will not be required to have an ID card at the same time. The loophole is that you apply for your paasport via a UK High Commission in a foreign country.

You'll need a registered address in that foreign country, but with friends and relatives all over the world, that shouldn't be to onerous a task. Also the specifics of the renewal process differ from country to country, so one will need to with the local rules.

In essence what you are looking for is a country at some distance from the UK (ie it's a nuisance to have to travel back to the UK for a renewal), which also has a large population of UK citizens, so they're geared up for passport renewal. Australia, South Africa, Canada and New Zealand fit the bill perfectly.

oooh, that's interesting. As I said elsewhere on here, I wonder if they are ready for the influx of damaged or lost passport related renewals next year?

This is a blatant case of the government treating us like f*uckin' morons and baring their arses at us in a 'we can do what the hell we want to and say the sun is green and there is NOTHING you can do to stop us.'

It simply shows the utter contempt that this government treats us with these days.

The best thing to do would be for everyone to not travel abroad and cripple the airline and foreign holiday industries. It would do wonders for the UK holiday industry though!



Hmmm, only had my new one for 3 years! and as I holiday in the UK mainly I don't really need one.

Well we've already determined that lying, taking the country to war, bankrupting the pension system, rolling over for probably the most disliked American leader in 500 years, and happily giving in to every European request, won't stop people voting for him.

I'm afraid that if God has decided we need ID cards, then who are we to argue ?

and now we have the leader of the government relying on the members of the main opposition party to get his bills through. Some interesting comments about defacto resignation and effectively formation of a coalition government in the media today. When will the govt get the message? if ever.

I'm increasingly of the opinion we should borrow the USA idea of limiting the number of terms which anyone person can have the top job for.

Yes but look what they get in the top job - Actors, grifters, xenophobes, monomaniacs and fundamentalist Christians with one finger on the trigger and a phone in the other hand with a dirct line to Bob.

Haven't we borrowed enough from the Americans already?

turvy

Oh and not forgetting - cool dudes with a drug-induced penchant for cigars and Interns!

t.

Something that I've noticed, but which the media have s seemingly chosen not to comment on, is that the current situeation; with the Upper house knocking back recent bills the government have put to them, is exactly that which was happening towards the end of the Thatcher government... I just hope the house of Lords continues to reject the ID card bill, its totally against the New Labour pledge of a 'voluentary' scheme in their manafesto, and as a scheme has as far as I can make out no support whatsoever in the population

"Haven't we borrowed enough from the Americans already?"
Yeah but this is something I think the USAians have got right!
We wouldn't have to borrow their entire electgoral system, just the one bit.

"Actors"
There are some in govt already, its only a matter of time!
"grifters"
Always preferred the chopper myself.
"xenophobes"
Well, we've had plenty of our share of them in the past!
"monomaniacs"
Check
"fundamentalist Christians with one finger on the trigger and a phone in the other hand with a dirct line to Bob"
Darn close though aren't we.

2Legs, yes, the comparisons with Thatchers last days, on a personal rather than policy level, are there. He doesn;t let his control freak side out in public as much, but definitly there.

After the education vote though there must surely be machinations in the corridors of power to start digging at the chinks in his armour. If it wasn;t b*gg*ring up the country so much it'd be interesting to watch how this plays out.

But come what may, TB is not going to get the legacy he wanted. I just wonder whether this will end up with him being delusional or bitter. I can't see him calmly and serenely accepting it.

There were only a small number of labour rebels, the only reason this is getting so much attention is that the conservatives voted for it in virtually all cases. Had a more standard thing of some of them voting for it and some of them not it would have been passed and nobody would care.

er, yes. That's exactly the reason.
Now the question is, why did this non standard outcome happen, what does it mean, and where is this all going?

42.

What I meant was we normally see some rebels for noth the labour and consevatives. 50 labour rebels while large has often been overlooked due to the labour majority and the conservative rebels. On this occassion the only rebels were the labour rebels and the conservatives followed the goverenment. Under normal circumstances some support is gleaned from the other parrties. Why because it was all the Torys does it become an issue.

I say 50 I only remeber people saying around 50 can't remember exact number. Maybe that was what the 42 was about.

Take away the Scottish MP's, the bill won't effect Scotland, and you get the true picture and soon, what joy, we'll have a Scottish PM.

Well we've had them before and shock some of them were Tory! Run for the hills - the Scots are coming! The Scots are coming! Won't somebody please think of the children?

As for the ID cards, I'm just sorry I have to have my new passport now, so I can't get the whole faddle over and done with in one fell swoop. Oh well.