h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"Yes: Israel was *created* by the USA (along with Britain, under the auspices of the UN)"

That insinuates that the US/UK somehow consipired to form Israel. The UN was pretty much forced to create the Jewish State in 1948 due to the mass migration of Jews from Europe, fleeing the continent that had treated them so barbarically. Britain was hardly accepting (in fact many Britons were killed in bombings by Jewish terrorist extremists in Palestine, (something brushed under the carpet of history by those righwingers currently engaging in an opportunistic alliance with Israeli Zionists against Islam) when we still ran the country. Israel was certainly opposed by the arabs already living in Palestine, but given that these were people who were fleeing a continent where their people had been mass-murdered and given the huge number of Arab nations in the Middle East it's hard not to see this as anti-imigrant racism as much as anything else.

Incidentally, I don't think the US backed Israel early on - that was pretty much the UK and France, judging by their conspiring with Israel before the Suez Crisis (during which I think the USA backed Egypt).

>Britain was hardly accepting (in fact

that "(" should be a "-", sorry.

the original plan for israel was concieved by an american called Rothschild in the original draft there was a small piece 0of land set asidefor jewish refugees it ras since expanded to about 3 times it's intended original size

mosha dyan carried out several terrorist bombings

...as did Menachim Begin (sp?).

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it seems the israelis learned a lot from the germans

"it seems the israelis learned a lot from the germans"

Find any Jewish person, secular or religious, liberal or conservative and tell them that. I don't think they'd take too kindly to it.

Are the Palestinians being put into camps and gassed to death? No. Did the Germans accept the eventual need for a "Jewish State" on their borders? No.

Are the Israeli's often oppressive, racist or stubborn? Yes. But that's been the way with people dealing with people of another race and religion for centuries. It's absurd to claim that Jews who suffered in the holocaust were taking mental notes and then dished similar punishment out on the Palestinians.

the palestinians certainly are being put in camps.not gassed but machine gunned bombed attacked with tanks and bulldozers

Yes, indeed it is. But - to pull the discussion onto a more constructive course - one might expect the Israelis to be more understanding about the plight of the Palestinian people than most other countries?

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israel has attacked and taken territory from every country on it's borders

With American money...

"israel has attacked and taken territory from every country on it's borders"

Rubbish. Israel was attacked by the arab nations, not the other way around. It occupied the Golan Heights because they were being used by terrorists to attack Israeli towns. The sinai was briefly occupied but handed back to Egypt in 1980. I think the West Bank will eventually become independent Palestine, and I think Israel (if not Sharon) knows that too.

lebanon?

"one might expect the Israelis to be more understanding about the plight of the Palestinian people than most other countries?"

Unfortunately not. Oppressed people do not tend to become meek, often quite the opposite. Besides, I don't think there can be many holocaust survivers in the current Israeli administration. Some Jews became disillusioned with humanity after the holocaust (see Primo Levi), some became more resolute about the protection of the Jewish people. Since the arab countries agreed to "push the Jews into the sea" after Israel was formed this (and the two pan-arab wars against Israel) have hardened the Israeli psyche. I'm not saying this is a good thing by any means, but there won't be any peace in the Middle East until people stop picking sides and try and understand the position of both peoples. Judging by some of the postings here, that is a long way from happening.

"the original plan for israel was concieved by an american called Rothschild in the original draft there was a small piece 0of land set asidefor jewish refugees it ras since expanded to about 3 times it's intended original size"

That makes it an idea created by an American, not a machination of his government. Israel may have occupied certain other countries, but no one recognises any formal annexation. The West Bank and Gaza Strip are destined to become Palestine - the US wants it, Europe wants it, even Sharon has begrudgingly acquiesed (which caused some protest at his party conference), the Golan Heights will have to be surrendered once Hezbollah are wound-up (the only excuse Israel has for occupying them).

"lebanon?"

What part of Lebanon have they occupied?

lebanon was invaded and the west bank was and has been palestine from the get go

Terrorists? Weren't they Syrians, and aren't the Golan Heights in Syria? Terrorist is a word for a fighter of whose cause you disapprove.

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how about the terrorist attack on jenin

"Terrorists? Weren't they Syrians, and aren't the Golan Heights in Syria? Terrorist is a word for a fighter of whose cause you disapprove."

The terrorists are called Hizbollah (sp?). They fire missiles at Israeli civilian targets. They are not a part of the Syrian military.

I think I can safely call them terrorists. I'm not really concerned with what their cause is, although I probably wouldn't be sympathetic to it. Syria wouldn't stop the terrorist attacks, so Israel occupied otherwise their people would keep being killed.

The Golan Heights belong to Syria, but until terrorists stop using them, I can't blame Israel for occupying them.