h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

We are all different people, we know each other and signed up at around the same time.

One can not get anywhere in this world without forming abstractions. Genres are abstractions.

"...it seems at best rather trusting to base your assesment of someone's quality on somebody else's classification of their style without bothering to use any of your own judgement."
I don't know what this is about... I have heard rap music, you know.

All the accusations that you make in that post come across as extremely hypocritical when you start to judge Objectivism based on the opinion one student of Objectivism holds about rap.

And yes, Mr. Mope and I are different people.

"All the accusations that you make in that post come across as extremely hypocritical when you start to judge Objectivism based on the opinion one student of Objectivism holds about rap."

I think he was simply saying that you, a student of 'Objectivism', haven't been objective in this case. And I'd certainly say you haven't - not that any of us can, really. I can only say that I like rap. You could state that you don't. Both of us could have our reasons. But you have 'judged' it to be bad, and made brash statements that have little to do with reality. Will you be responding to any more of my previous points in the near future?

Reality is not determined by personal preferences.

Based on all my moderately extensive experience with rap, I have looked at the fundamentals of the genre and come to certain conclusions. Nobody can do better than that.

(PS: The original article was written in a joking manner, so don't take things like "the lyrics can be written by a five-year old" literally.)

Fisrtly, *personally*, I think quite a lot of rap is vicious ghetto-wallowing rubbish and/or repetetive to the point of imbecility, yet there is also music around of definite quality that I'd have to say was either rap or heavily rap-influenced.


LDT, The entirely valid question I was asking in my post was trying to clarify if you honestly think you can objectively write off a particular person (P) classified in a particular category (C) without any experience of that particular person's product.

If so, it is logically obvious that you must be relying on the opinion of someone else as to whether person P actually is justifiably classifiable into category C, since you have no direct personal knowledge of the products of person P.


Whether regarding a musical style of a school of painting, *conventionally* rational people would start off with a quite justifiable prejudice ("I probably won't like X because I understand their style is similar to that of people whose work I have disliked in the past"), and might avoid experiencing X on the strength of that prejudice, but would be perfwectly prepared to modify their opinion in the light of experience, and also would refrain from criticising a particular person of whom they had no actual experience.


>> "All the accusations that you make in that post come across as extremely hypocritical when you start to judge Objectivism based on the opinion one student of Objectivism holds about rap."

I thought it was clear I was referring to your apparent use of objectivism to try and bolster what would appear to be a simple personal opinion.

>> "(PS: The original article was written in a joking manner, so don't take things like "the lyrics can be written by a five-year old" literally.)"

I think it is difficult for many people to tell when you are actually attempting to be amusing, and when you acheive joke status by accident. If I was to credit you with a significant sense of humorous perspective and irony, I might end up concluding that everything you wrote about Objectivism was meant to be a wind up. Maybe I was erring on the side of seriousness. I'll try and be wary of that in future.

Now, all I need is a few mates to tell me how brilliant I am.
No, hang on, even I'm not nearly that insecure.

LDT. You might have written it in a joking manner. That is what I first assumed. Yet you have defended your claims all the way along... and your first post in response to my question was

"Is this a joke? No.

Posted Last Week by LDT
No, this isn't a joke.

Passing judgement is something that the virtuous man must do, whether it be good or evil, black or white."

All I am saying is that I think you have judged wrong. Yes, it is a perfectly normal thing to do to come to an opinion on something after not having experienced the whole scope of things it includes, most of us do it with music. Especially me, I'm stubborn (or at least used to be) when it comes to giving different bands, genres etc a chance. But can you not accept that possibly, you are wrong about rap? Now that we have pointed out that there is more to rap than perhaps you first thought, understandably given a bad impression than the tosh that often gets given the most coverage?

I'm not asking you to start liking the genre, simply to acknowledge that there is more to it than you previously thought, that it does indeed take some talent to rap, and that rap fans are not all imbeciles!

I taught myself to survive
a four story fall
wearing a spacesuit
and a dead Englishman's socks.
It's a textbook adventure kid,
right out of the pages
of the hollowed out book
where I once hid
my paint speckled glasses.
...Don't lose your shoes
over such a simple step
as hitting the ground-
just remember to roll...
remember to roll.

"Silence in a 5 story stairwell" I say
and that's all I can think of
in my Brandon-eyed dead of day crawl.
And I can barely squeeze that lie
through the plaque-clogged pin hole
between my two front teeth-

Mom,
I've kept a rasor under my tongue
since I was a small toddler with a tight belt.

I haven't been able to kiss a woman
with an open mouth my friend,
cause I'm afraid I might split her lip-
is that sick?

Maybe I'm playing the part
of a falling stone who tries to catch the wind.

The man with the negative wingspan
eats sourdough Sue bread,
and hits his highest notes on tippietoe.
It's simple instrospection
when the sun is silent
and the flourescents, with their blue,
make the plants call you
a lonely monkey
in a very large glass cage.

LDT-

You say rap is a form of music. Actually, it started as a form of poetry. RAP stands for Radical American Poetry.

Now, I largely dislike rap music, especially the "gangsta rappers", but it is folly to lump the entire genre of rap together under such a banner.

Now, bands such as Run-DMC fall under the genre of rap, or hip hop, yet they are so different to the "gangsta" rappers, their songs giving voice to the values of fun, entertainment, understanding, peace and social responsibility.

I have written two articles aboutt his group on h2g2 and it's sister site collective, and maybe some of what i have written may make you see rap from another poinrt of view.

A1035965
A867783

The second of those articles contains a link to http://thadweb.com/rundmc/

Now, if you go to that website, click "Lyrics" on the left hand side, click the top left picture, and then the title "It's Like That", you can read the lyrics to their debut single.

Now, read those lyrics, and then give me a good reason why your generalisations about rap can be extended to acts such as Run-DMC, who fall under the rap banner.

Another rap act who i think would fail your classifcation would be Grandmaster Flash. You can find the text to his "The MEssage",a tale of the plight of inner city residents below the pverty line at http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/SongUnid/DE263FE1D96567E148256AA10003AF9B

Also, in the defence of the often repulsive Eminem, his best song (in my opinion), Stan, is a wonderfully dramatic song, telling the story of an obsessed fan and the danger he poses to himself and others. It is like a poem (Radical American poetry remember?) and the video, directed by Dr. Dre, is a wonderful short film illustrating the story.

Also, some rap siongs have anti-drugs messages, for example,

Grandmaster Flash's White Lines (Don't Do It):

"A million magic crystals, painted pure and white
A multi-million dollars almost over night
Twice as sweet as sugar, twice as bitter as salt
And if you get hooked, baby, it's nobody else's fault, so don't do it!"

or Run DMC's It's Tricky, a rollicking tune about rapping, effects of fame, and how rapping is harder than people think:

"We are not thugs
We Don't use drugs
But you assume on your own
They offer coke
And lots of dope
But we just leave it alone"

The first three lines of that Run-DMC passgae sum up the problem of generalisation, that you make assumptions about all rap groups based ona small sample.

LDT- I don't suppose you've read any of those links, have you?

Don't be silly Egon.

Hey, I'm an optimist.

im not convinced by the article, so i declare this is

THE END

mwahaahaa...