h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'd like here to hear of other people's experiences of psychotherapy ... did it help, or did it not? Why? What would you like psychotherapy to do for you? How do you think it could be done better from how you've experienced it? At any rate this might be a meaningful discussion for lots of us.

My therapist does not analyze me, so much as just talk to me about what is going on in my life. I don't know if you would call that psychotherapy, or just therapy. I do know seeing her helps a lot - she is very down to earth, has a good sense of humor, and has never acted shocked at any of the strange things I have experienced.

JEllen

Never met one. Doctors, one or 2 psych ire trysts*, and a couple of counsellors at peak times (emotionally). I recently one of the two PTSD counsellors in this part of the country, who evidently hasn't got past the accident/combat direction yet.

*psych (ological) ire (anger) tryst (connection)

Ooh, I tell a lie. My last but one meeting with a psychiatrist about 2 years ago (the one who, after much pushing from me, suggested 'complex ptsd' and then didn't write it down), sent me to an art therapist. A year later I went for a review, and the next psych said there wasn't anything in my file that mentioned ptsd. 'It doesn't matter now,' I said, 'I've done my own research, and I'm almost better'.

But I had gone to the soft-spoken beardy art therapist anyway, who was clearly trained to help children resolve trauma, since he took me into a playroom, passed me a drawing set and a big piece of paper. (Great set though, Winton & Rowley, or something; the good sh*t)

'Draw whatever comes to mind,' he said, so I whipped up a picture of a kitten with a jerusalem artichoke up its * and said 'There you go, now can you give me something I can use?'

The only thing that has really worked for me was having the facts about ptsd as it affects a survivor of domestic violence. I'm thinking now though, that I've created a new problem with this solution; insofar as I sometimes feel I've rationalised my childhood and cultural heritage away, as though it has no value to me other than symptomatic. But professional help is being sought. (Barton)

*not really

First off, let me say that I'd like nothing more than to think that I could find a therapist that would do me some good. I've got some deeply ingrained attitudes and ideas that could really use some work... but all of my attempts at getting help have done more harm than good, some of them considerably so. Or at least that's how I *feel*, and as far as I'm concerned, that's what matters most.

My first experience with a psychotherapist was when I was 13. Said therapy was mandatory, and state-subsidised, so I gave the therapist the benefit of the doubt even though he failed to hear all of my pleas for help. Maybe he thought I was too young and naive to understand what was going on, I don't know. What I do know is that my therapist's conclusion was that my "failure" to "adapt" to my new environment was due to a condition called Reactive Attachment Disorder. I was put on some medications, including Ritalin, none of which did any good. Turns out that diagnosis was incorrect. Surprise, surprise.

The next time I went to a shrink was after I attempted suicide by ingesting Sterno (diethylene glycol). I can't remember much of what went on during that time, except that I was pumped full of Lithium and spent the better part of that summer in a mental health facility. Most of that time was spent in restraints and/or an "isolation room". This time I was diagnosed with rapid-cycling bipolar disorder. The shrink assigned to me seemed to think that the best way to deal with a teenage girl who was suicidal after a brutal sexual assault was to interrogate me about my sexual habits- or lack thereof- including such insightful subjects as "how often to you masturbate and what's your technique"... yadda yadda yadda. Thank god for the volunteer do-gooder who got me out of THAT mess...

I also sought therapy after my car wreck, that shrink barely even spoke to me, he spent 15 minutes or so with me, prescribed me an anti-depressant called Trazodone (which incidentally caused me to have frequent blackouts and to gain nearly 70 lbs). My GP pulled me off that crap once he found out, and did his best to deal with the problem himself thereafter.

Late last year I made one last attempt at seeking "professional help". As I was unemployed and without medical coverage, I was referred by a friend (a psych major) to a clinic with a sliding fee scale which I could kind of afford. She was a lovely person, but skittish and flaky as hell. Her philosophy was "what's done is done, the past is in the past" (i.e., "GET OVER IT!"). She thought it best to first attack my utter lack of assertiveness, and recomended I purchase some self-help books. Do I really need to pay someone $75 an hour to make book recommendations and idle chit-chat? Argh! Not to mention her bad habit of "forgetting" about my appointments, and scheduling other patients for the same time slot, or not showing up at all at times. After four months and seven missed appointments, I gave up.

So, as you can imagine, I'm a bit jaded and more than a litle doubtful as to the odds of finding a good therapist, and I'm dead set against going to see one alone at this point in time. For the moment, I'm getting much more help from a few close friends who *know* what I need and are ever so happy to give it... love, patience, kindness, and understanding. That includes all of you.

I'm willing to reconsider, especially if any of you lot have a positive experience to share. But not right now.

Sorry for the rant.... breathe, PC, breathe...

Wow, PCandy, you've had the who's who of bad therapists! That's creepy, the one grilling you about your sexual habits. No wonder you are reluctant to go to a professional again - if I had been through the same misdiagnosis and mistreatment, I wouldn't go near them either. I so wish I could wrap Linda, my therapist, up in a package and send her to you for a while. At least your judgement is still sound - you can tell who is helping you and who is not. I'm glad that you trust your intuition first. If you ever do try therapy again, you might seek out someone who does EMDR (eye movement therapy). It is pretty non intrusive, and is supposed to work well for trauma. It sounds like all these "professionals" were too busy sticking labels on you to just acknowledge that you are a young woman who has been traumatized.

JEllen

Labelling = objectification = dehumanization = rejection = revictimization = abuse.

Well, I've been fortunate enough at least to have a good GP who's done his best to help me with the PTS, my fibromyalgia, and my eating disorder. At least he seems to be more interested in helping me function somewhat normally, and keeping me healthy and relatively happy, than in drugging me up and keeping me quiet.

I did try hypnotherapy once, thinking it would help me get over my fear of driving. Oddly enough, I'm impossible to hypnotize. I think it was Barton, in fact I'm sure it was, who suggested that might have been a defensive thing. Who knew I could be *that* stubborn?

Seriously, though, it does help these days to know that I *can* trust my own judgement. It's difficult for me to resist people in positions of authority or power over me, even if I know they're doing me harm. For the longest time, I just accepted the idea that since these people are "professionals", they've got to be right and know what's best. What a load of crap!

You know, I know it doesn't sound like much, but can you imagine the effect a 70-lb. weight gain has on a young woman with bulimia? Argh! It's something I'm still struggling with. I did manage to lose about 40 of it, and did it the proper way without benefit of throwing up, so I'm proud of that. It's hard, though, sometimes.

Psychocandy

oh dear, the bastards really grind you down

I saw a psych about my problems and she too was obsessive about my sexual habits and asked how many times I masturbate and how. How this was supposed to help me with rape and incest I do not know! This woman seemed sex obsessed, and I was trying to get away from sex obsessed!

Don't waste your time with another one and neither shall I, I find the help I get here is enough, its also humane!!

I didn't know you had bulimia as well, and to give you a drug which made you put on so weight. Do you know if this drug always puts weight on people, it seems that most anti-depressents do.

Ha ha!! Stuff the lot of them!

I guess it's fairly common for people to gain weight on tricyclic antidepressants. I read somewhere that the average weight gain for patients on Trazodone was around 2 lbs a week. I managed to put on all that weight in around 2 months or so. (Incidentally, I've also heard that the drug Wellbutrin causes some degree of weight LOSS, especially in patients who've gained weight while taking other antidepressants. Wish I could have tried that stuff!)

What really pisses me off was the fact that even though it is HIGHLY irregular for anyone to gain so much weight in so short a time without a serious metabolic problem, the only advice my shrink and GP at the time had for me was "don't eat so much" (I eat like a bird, bulimia, duh!) and "try getting some more exercise". As if it were simply a matter of self-control or something!

Hello again everybody and thanks for all your replies!

I'll be seeing my psychiatrist again this Tuesday. Overall I'm satisfied with him, but at least initially I found our sessions too short. He's asked that we lengthen them, so now I see him once every two months for about forty minutes. This is not exactly psychotherapy, as he's my psychiatrist and is mainly concerned with making sure my medication schedule is OK, but we do talk about relevant things.

I will not yet say everything I have to say about psychotherapy.

At any rate Chris, you can do with a bit of extra bodyweight!

Psychocandy, I'm sorry to hear about how your medication caused you to gain weight ... I don't really know to what extent my medication influences my bodyweight, but in my own case at least, self control does have something to do with it. I really eat like a horse, and I also use anti-depressants and the anti-psychotic medication is also said to sometimes cause weight gain, but my bodyweight is totally under my voluntary control through means of exercise. I lost a lot of weight since you last saw me, Chris, I went down to about 140 pounds first and then gained a bit of size again, and I'm now fairly stable at about 155 pounds. But I'll again go for other periods of weight loss and weight gain as I try to rid myself of just about all my bodyfat while building my muscles as big as I can. But the thing I want to say is that whatever medication I'm taking doesn't matter because I decide for myself what I want to weigh and do what's necessary to get myself there, whether that be eating more, or less, or exercising more, or less. But I must say this here ... with me the exercising has been a habit since the age of sixteen, and I know how to both train and diet *safely*. People who don't know how to do it safely can get in big trouble through harmful ways of exercising and dieting.

Another thing I wish to mention ... I have gained the impression that conditions like anorexia and bulimia are quite frequently found in women who are survivors of abuse.

"whatever medication I'm taking doesn't matter because I decide for myself what I want to weigh and do what's necessary to get myself there, whether that be eating more, or less, or exercising more, or less."

It really must be nice, for controlling one's weight to be that easy. I'm always a bit perplexed, though, when people who've never met me, and have no idea what my eating and exercise habits are, write me off as lacking self-control. What the hell would someone have to eat to put on 70 lbs in under two months? Well, what do I know? This isn't an easy thing for me to talk about, really. It's humiliating to have to admit to needing to resort to doing anything I have to in an effort to control my weight, and still fail miserably. Especially when it's apparently so easy to do.

I've had problems with emotional eating at times, but I force myself to control it. I consume 800 Calories or less a day, and any surplus is purged as soon as is discreetly possible, immediately if I can. I eat dinner in the bathroom at home, just in case.

I know most of the ways to control one's eating- I drink lots of water, I've eaten cotton balls to keep my stomach feeling full, I've used diuretics, laxatives, appetite suppresants, Ipecac, you name it. I was able to get down to 140 lbs by getting by for an entire year on nothing but Meridia, water and spirulina. I smoke like a chimney to keep from putting food in my mouth. But I seem to have hit a plateau. I try not to eat too much, Barton and Richenda can attest to that, they've spent enough time with me. Although I do slip up sometimes, and get so exhausted I need to eat something with a bit of fat or some carbohydrate just to keep me going. For the most part, I avoid fats, sugars, and carbs almost entirely though, and still can't get where I need to be. What, do people think I actually *enjoy* being this way? I can barely look at myself in the mirror without wanting to vomit.

As far as exercise goes, I get as much as I can, and try to walk places and such when it's an option. It's hard to find things that I can do without putting too much strain on my joints, especially my knees. It's hard to go to the gym and hop a treadmill or stair-climber, or pump iron and such, when most days it hurts to move at all, but I do the best I can, and I get more exercise and eat better than most people I know.

It's really frustrating and depressing, when six years ago I could get my hands around my waist, and now can barely get them around my thigh. Have any of you tried any really low-impact exercises which can improve muscle tone and help with weight loss but don't put too much strain on the knees or back? It's so hard for me, some days (like today, for instance) I'm in so much pain just sitting upright is absolute agony, even having taken a pain pill.

Sorry for dragging the conversation off so far off topic again. I'm good like that.

"I have gained the impression that conditions like anorexia and bulimia are quite frequently found in women who are survivors of abuse."

Obviously, I couldn't relate to the horrific experiences of women survivors, but after 10 years of drugs, fags, drink and malnutrition, I know nothing reinforces mistreatment of one's physical health more than feeling it has as much importance as you do, i.e. fractionally less than the shithead that gave you that idea in the first place. But as a borderline alcoholic son of alcoholic children of alcoholics, I'm tended toward the nature side of this argument, at least with me.

Psychocandy I want to say something here: controlling my weight is NOT EASY!! It takes a heck of an amount of effort. I do tend to being overweight, if I haven't made that clear yet. I reduced to my current weight from about 200 pounds, a while back. Back when I didn't know how to control my bodyweight, it was a huge problem to me, but once I learnt it, it is no trouble any more. I say 'no trouble' compared to the trouble that it *was* back then, the trouble it is now. It still takes iron discipline which also, to me doesn't come naturally, but I've been able to develop it by working over the *long term*. It took several years of concerted effort. Right now, I *have to* exert all of this self-discipline to maintain my bodyweight where it is right now ... if I did *not* exert this discipline, I would blow up like a blimp, and my health and quality of life would go out the window. I would be barely able to move! I really *do* tend to seriously put on weight if I don't watch myself.

Remember, I also have fibromyalgia so I also know about being in pain. What I found was that physical exercise, though at first it seemed to be causing even more pain, over time did help to reduce the pain. What also helped reduce the pain was making sure I get enough sleep every night. These days I have very little pain left, but if I have some pain, I don't let it prevent me from exercising.

Psychocandy, I could help you, but not over the short term. If you want my advice, ask, and I'll tell you, but it will be a long slow process because I need to find out lots of things about you first. I must make sure that whatever I'm recommending isn't harmful to you.

I just want to say something here ... my approach is about *health*, not about *weight*. I care less for what a person weighs, than I care about how healthy that person is. Most of the things you mention for controlling 'eating' are very unhealthy. My 'system' is based on maximal boosting of the internal health of the body, boosting the immune system, boosting the metabolism. It means that you can eat *more* while losing weight and maintaining a healthy ratio of fat to muscle. If you want to try this out you will totally have to take into consideration your fibromyalgia, and also your overall psychological attitude and general life circumstances. I want to say something extremely important here: *trying to improve your health and your physical condition can cause a lot of psychological anxiety!!!* It can be massively triggering, just to start a *process* of physical self-improvement. I know this from personal experience. Trying just to keep myself healthy and in good condition has at times been a nightmarish struggle and has brought me to despair. There have been very many horrendous experiences along the way to where I am today. I have on several occasions seriously sabotaged my own health and wellbeing. I have managed to rise above all that and I think I can give others the benefits of my experience, but I realise it's not going to be easy, and it's going to take time, and it's going to take extreme courage! I can't expect anybody else to have that sort of courage ... it has to come from inside themselves.

Remember Psychocandy, I'm also a survivor of serious traumas and I fully understand the difficulties involved here.

I can help you out ... but I'm gong to have to approach the thing with great delicacy, and it's going to need lots of time.

Psychocandy, just read your posting about your struggles with your weight, I am sorry to hear that it is so difficult and such a struggle. I am trying to loss weight, I now eat healthier then most people I know, with the odd treat, 2 kilos come off then I forget to be so strict and the 2 kilos come back on. It is so impossible, I also walk more than most people I know.

Keep on trying though babe and so will I. I know you don't deserve any future problems, its not fair that you are having to go through more stress.

But one thing i know is that I am still looking forward to meeting you, and I will love you for the you I know. Its good making friends on the internet, we make truer friends without being influenced by knowledge of race, age, size, number of pimples etc etc!!

Part of the trouble, Willem, is that I don't care how much my health suffers if I could only look all right. It's not even so much a matter of what the numbers are as much as I can't stand looking at myself because I don't like what I see. So where the problem comes in is that while I'm careful what I eat and exercise as best I can, I can never be satisfied with the results. I'll get on the scale one day, see I haven't lost an ounce in weeks, and then I'll go off on a gorging binge then have to throw it all back up straight away. When I was in my early 20s, I had to buy clothes at children's stores, and I still wasn't happy. It's not about health at all, I don't think.

It makes me very happy to think that there are indeed people who like me for me, and not the sack of meat I lug myself around in. I'm trying ever so hard to learn to do the same.

Willem, I think before any advice about exercise regimens and whatnot will help, I need to adjust my attitude a bit. It's harder to be disciplined about soemthing when your motivations are all wrong, isn't it?

Richenda took the time to check the medical stats for my BMI the other day, and I found it really funny that I'm only a couple of pounds away from being within the "desirable" range, yet still I'm far, far away from being thin. Where do they come up with these figures? I'd much prefer to be at the other end of the range.

Someone once said to me 'people with PTS have a tendency to treat their bodies as sacks for keeping their brain warm.' So true.

PC, you are very beautiful to me, to see, to hold, to share with and to understand. I dare say to smell too. But one of the things I love most is when people *sound* beautiful (you know).

I'm not going to lecture about healthy living, I care equally about that; I just want to appreciate the beauty you had all along, before those ******s starting sticking ugly ON you.

It comes off.

Thank you, Krispy. You say the nicest things to me, and it makes me feel really good.

Kaz, I'm really looking forward to your visit and getting to meet you, too. It'll be fun to have you guys stay with me! It's true what you say, about making truer friends when you have no choice but to get to know the *real* person. You are ALL beautiful to me!

Something I'm curious about, reverting back to the original topic. Has anyone ever been involved in any kind of "group" therapy, or know anyone who has? Any opinions as to its helpfulness? Just idle curiousity, really. One-on-one stuff is just too scary, you know?

I have not had true psychotherapy or seen a Dr (cannot spell that word pyschiatrist) other than to be oK'd to be "handled by a social worker level of MSW2"

Generally those Dr do prescribing and diagnosis of Serious Mental Illness such as psycosis.

Social workers and psychologists deal with the practical day to day life and reoccurring problems and patterns. They help you clarify world views(staying off religion generally) They help you clarify priorites and clarify your actions matching your words which builds trust in self(a biggie!) you must set goals with them,you tell them what you are unhappy with and they proceed to work with you to accomplish that as a team. Same for groups.

There is obviosly more one on one attention NOT being in a group but groups are cheaper and more available and good once you are at a point of taking action and needing support.They are als good for the not so shy and non stop talkers.

Some groups are good for purging expriences. Some for making them real and demystifying them. Some have one on one once a month and group too. OR therapy and your specialized support group. (eating disorders ,anger,abuse,substance addiction ,sex or people addiction, divorce and so on)

The groups are generally specific to the largest hurdle in your way. We are all in our on way sort of. WE can learn to get out of our own way. Much therapy is cognitive or social or behavioral. Changing behavior will change attitudes. It can happen from the other direction too. Change attitudes and you change behavior. Normally therapy is once a week or 2 a month. Groups often meet weekly for the same price as 2 a month in private one on one therapy.

I can best explain my process by recalling the first day with my successful therapist.

Therapists major first questions:
(1)What are your needs?
This is the best to elaborate on and the most common therapy question. It helps to tell them a lot about you.

It also relates to the first marriage counseling session the hubby and I had. Marriage counseling is very different BTW.

Ok What are your needs?
Well what do you mean? She repeated. I said you mean like food clothing and shelter? Yes she replied, then asked what else?
I had NO answer I had no emotonal needs so I thought
That says alot.

In our first therapy for marriage couseling the therapist asked my hubby what I needed ( dejavu HOW ODD!)
He said you mean food,water, clothing, shelter,medical,sunlight, love and sex?
Teehee he did better than I, for a first timer

Good she said , what else? She needs more than a potted plant you know! That is enough to keep a potted plant alive but not thriving....
A plant would also need rotations,fertilizer,trust in a dependable schedule,pruning,having the deadheads removed, consider the seasons and age when considering changing needs. Disease and pest control, new soil from time to time. It looks best and grows best in something suitable.

Another comon therapy question;
(2)Do you have a goal for yourself or for therapy?

(3)What do you notice at this minute about your enviornment?
(how many senses do you use descibing what you notice in this minute. Is there a sense that is missing or one that is concentrated on more?

(4)How old do you feel at this minute?


I had two horrid excuses for therapist.One after listening a bit to what I thought my biggest issue was said in a gruff tone "What do you expect me to do? I do not know how I could help you" THE END
Devastating, I felt like a lost cause summed up in a few minutes. There was no help for me

I cannot be hypnotised. I will not allow it. I can do myself but will not allow another person too participate. The more suggestable and trusting you are, the easier to have someone do it.

I have two friends with PTSD that benefited greatly from a procedure called Rapid Eye Movement Desensitiztion REMD I believe it is. I may be off a word It has been controversial but it trains the brain to get over the glitch where you get stuck and obsess about things,thoughts. It has to do with eye movements and tapping of the fingers. It changes nuero circuits almost. Interesting stuff. They are 3 hour appointments but I have seen them do wonders.

My best experiences where talking and goal setting and clarifying what I did believe. Restating all in a child and then an adult perspective. Knowing I did not deserve the things tha happened to me as a child and having a himan that knew it all for the first time ever.

The biggest 4 little steps that take a looooong time.
Realizing that I had needs,
I deserve to have needs,
Then learning how to ask or seek them for myself.
BOUNDARIES!

The healthily stubborn can sometimes not adapt to a situation.
When I was a chld I was taken to therapists by my adoptive parent. I recall quite plainly them saying ;I was a well adjusted child in my nw family. They said my mother was NOT adjusting to me.

When I relayed this story to my therapists she said;
No one can remain in a sick situation and survive without becomeing a bit sick themselves.

It would be healthier for some to not adapt because the situation is too sick to survive. Most children adapt in order to survive.

I adapted in order to survive as a child then blamed myself as an adult for being a wimp. I felt resigned to staying that way. I did not, and I believe it is due to the hard and painful work I did in therapy.


Friends are great. My best friend helped lead me into therapy.
My mothere was horrified, most mums are!!
The discussion got so deep and so frequent my friend said to me one day: I love you, I want to be your friend ,NOT your therapists.
I urge you to go to therapy AND stay my friend.
Years later I returned the favor and told her the same recalling her words and how they helped me take the step feeling supported by a friend I trusted who would tell me if the therapists was bogus.

Friends and family are wonderful but the weight can be more than they can bare depending....depending ...on a lot! They can also do harm being well meaning.

These are only my experiences not a magic for all.
I do hope it may be of some help to someone else.
Even if it's; OMG now I know what her problem is and I will be sure NOT to do what she did!