A Conversation for The Game of Ayo
Query: Increased number of houses under his control
Sea Change Started conversation Oct 21, 2002
One thing mentioned earlier, just before the rules of play, make me think I have missed something.
Does Player 2 now own Player 1's House 3? It's not said in the rules given, but it's implied if it now gets four stones in it due to either player paying a fourth stone into it as part of their turning-cycle, it now goes to Player 2 instead of Player 1.
Can Player 1 get this house back by ending a cycle in it with 4 stones?
Does either player's turn necessarily stop when a house's content is seized, or is there a potential sweep-out of several houses (each player taking some stones)during anyone's turn?
Query: Increased number of houses under his control
Seth of Rabi Posted Oct 22, 2002
Fair comment, SC. It isn't put very clearly but in the example of play, Player 2 was won the four seeds from Player 1's House 3, but not ownership of the house. The four seeds do however guarantee him one house (though probably not that particular one) for the next round.
Hopefully, this should clarify.
A game can consist of many rounds, each player has many turns during a round, and a turn may involve many 'sowings' - the distribution of the seeds from one particular house during a turn.
If the last seed of a sowing is to a previously empty house, the turn ends, and if it is to a house previously containing 3 seeds, the turn also ends but the player wins the four seeds irrespective of who owns the house. If a house is made up to four seeds during a sowing (ie with anything but the final seed) the four seeds go to the owner of the house.
Ownership of the houses is set at the beginning of a round, and doesn't change until the end of that round.
At the end of the round, if say Player 1 has 32 seeds to Player 2's 16, for the next round Player 1 will own 8 houses to Player 2's 4. He is free to choose which houses to annex providing his property remains continuous - ie he can take his opponent's houses 1 & 2, or 5 & 6, or (I think) 1 & 6.
There is some advantage to playing second in the round (there isn't a good turn 1 - a couple are okay, the others are lousy) and the fewer houses you own, the more difficult it is to retain them. Hence the need to alternate which Player starts each round.
Hope this helps
Seth
Query: Increased number of houses under his control
Sea Change Posted Oct 22, 2002
So the only way to get your house back would be due to a turn that results in more than one capture for you?
Query: Increased number of houses under his control
Seth of Rabi Posted Oct 23, 2002
, No
The number of houses you own depends solely on the number of seeds you won in the previous round. One house for every four seeds.
Query: Increased number of houses under his control
Sea Change Posted Oct 23, 2002
So if your opponent cannot press his advantage and gain another house during the next round, you can get your lost house(s) back on the end of your next turn?
Do you just get back the house you lost, or can you opt to let your opponent have it, and pick some other one of his that is adjacent to one of your others? (say, if you anticipate a play next turn that'll score someone seeds from that particular house)
Query: Increased number of houses under his control
Seth of Rabi Posted Oct 24, 2002
Right, going back to the example of play, Player 2 on his first turn in the (first) round has won 4 seeds from Player 1's House 3 (though NOT the house - he is simply guaranteed at least one house in the next round). It's a case of first blood to Player 2, but there is still a long way to go in the round and ownership of the houses will not change until the round is over and the seeds won by each player during the round have been counted.
Please note that there are 10 more captures to make before the round is complete (the twelfth and last set of four being won automatically by the winner of the eleventh) so each player has many more turns to make before the next round starts.
At the end of the round, most of the seeds won by Player 2 will have come from his own property. It is only the special case of making a house of four with your final seed that allows you to win seeds from your opponents property (except for the last four seeds as just mentioned). But which of your opponents houses it is is irrelevant as far as ownership of that particular house is concerned - it stays belonging to the opponent, at least for the duration of that round.
Player 2 should win more seeds than Player 1 during the first round and therefore should start round 2 with at least 7 houses. But he has lost the advantage of going second and Player 1 with best play should be able to get back on even terms.
As each round starts with four seeds per house, and each Player's property is contiguous, it shouldn't actually make any difference which house(s) change hands at the end of a round. Effectively, you're just seeing the same arrangement viewed from a different perspective. But some people find the necessary mental readjustment more difficult than others, and this can affect to which end of his property a player chooses to add a won house.
Query: Increased number of houses under his control
Sea Change Posted Oct 25, 2002
I am thinking that while the geometric arrangement of the houses is not too important, other than at the first move, the actual contents of the houses are different. Therefore, it might be useful to claim a house on your opponent's side of the board instead of reclaiming one on your own, either to deny him a start move that will result in a capture for him, or to ensure that a seeding that pretty much will happen will drop 4 stones in your new house.
Query: Increased number of houses under his control
Seth of Rabi Posted Oct 26, 2002
If your opponent starts a round with x contiguous houses, he has x choices for his first move. Whichever way you rotate those x houses around the board, he still has the same x moves.
Moreover, whichever move he chooses, the pattern at the end of the move remains the same (because all houses start the round with four seeds), his only control being to rotate that pattern from 0 to (x-1) houses around the board by selection of the house from which he starts. There is no "blocking move" of the sort you are looking for available.
If Player 1 selected to start from House 2 instead of House 3 in the example, Player 2 can continue from House 5 (instead of 6) and make a capture from Player 1's House 2 (instead of 3). Identical play to the example but rotated 1 house clockwise. If, however, Player 1 starts from House 4, Player 2 cannot make the same capture (rotated 1 house anticlockwise), because he cannot start from his opponents property (Player 1's House 1 in this case).
Query: Increased number of houses under his control
Sea Change Posted Oct 28, 2002
I have a lot of trouble understanding most games as they pass Peer Review here. Most card game rules Edited in the Guide are utter nonsense, to my poor old brain. Usually a few questions reveal the strange way my mind works, sometimes, I even catch some errors or omissions. I love mancala, and my friends and I play some furious games of several different versions, so I thought I might have a chance to understand this one.
Now I *know* I really don't understand the rules of Ayo as they are written here. I'd never manage this game slightly drunk.
What does 'round' mean? What does 'capture' mean?
At each round, all houses are reset to have 4 seeds each in them, and the only evidence of capture from the two previous turns of each player making one circular cascade of sowing is in an increased/decreased number of houses each player owns?
From reading the instructions, and reading your responses here, I presumed captured stones remained captured for the entire game. Are new ones added to the newly owned house? Is a capture only temporary, lasting until the end of player 2's turn?
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Query: Increased number of houses under his control
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