A Conversation for The Zeroth Law of Thermodynamics
Triple point
Alex PN Started conversation Oct 2, 2002
It is not mentioned but the triple point exists BUT the specification includes a temperature AND a pressure. The triple point of water @ 0.01 degrees C is defined at the standard pressure of one atmosphere (or 760mmHg).
[Incidentally this explains why Antartica is the driest place on Earth. At the ambient temperatures, water exists almost only as a solid with little water vapour pressure above it.]
Other substances follow the same pattern. For instance, carbon dioxide has only a double point at standard pressure, ie. it will exist only as solid (dry ice) and gas. To produce CO2 liquid, a much higher pressure is required.
Triple point
Mikeo the gregarious Posted Oct 2, 2002
Slight point - the triple point of water is at 0.01 degrees C (273.16 Kelvin), but the corresponding pressure is considerably less than a standard atmosphere. I think the triple point pressure is about 6 kPa - around 6% of an atmosphere (101.325 kPa).
You may have implied this already, but unlike most other substances, the melting point *decreases* with increasing pressure! This makes ice-skating possible, as the pressure applied by the skater on the blades is sufficient to melt the ice, making it easy to travel on it. I do agree that at Antartic temperatures, the water is most likely to exist as a solid with a little water vapour, as both solids and liquids have corresponding saturated vapour pressures, i.e. the pressure at which the solid/liquid and vapour at a certain temperature are at equilibrium. This can also be used to calculate the composition of water vapour in the Antartic air - maybe someone could find this out?
Mikeo.
Ice Skating
Wick Posted Oct 25, 2002
This is not what makes ice skating possible. The pressure required to reduce the melting/freezing temperature of water by 1K is about 121 atmospheres (about 12250 kPa). Assuming that a skater weighs 100kg (big I know but it eases the calculations) and the skate is 1mm wide and 20cm long (possibly too narrow and/or short) then the pressure exerted is 4900kPa or 48 atmospheres. This not enough for pressure melting to be a factor unless the ice is already close to melting already. The reasons for ice skating working are not fully understood but it is not due to pressure melting.
There is a web page about this and other common misconceptions at [Broken link removed by Moderator]from which I got most of my base information, although I have been more generous in dimensions for my calculations.
Wick
Ice Skating
Al Johnston Posted Jun 5, 2008
The actual edge of a skate is a lot thinner than 1mm.
They're also curved, so the length of contact is also reduced.
Ice Skating
FordsTowel Posted Jun 5, 2008
Get out your physics books.
It's not merely pressure that melts the ice, making ice-skating smoother, but the friction from the movement of the blade. The ice under a skate will show little sign of melting without the friction!
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Triple point
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