A Conversation for The Christmas Star

Star of Bethlehem

Post 1

hardphil

The explanations given on A673382 don't allow for the fact that Matthew records the star stopping over the place where the child was. As this 'star' led them specifically to Bethlehem and then stopped over the actual manger, I think that it was not a natural star but a supernatural phenomenon. This wouldn't be difficult for the God who made the stars in the first place.


Star of Bethlehem

Post 2

Gnomon - time to move on

I was assuming it was an actual star. If it was something small enough to hang physically over a stable, then it was something much smaller, such as a shining glowing ball.


Star of Bethlehem

Post 3

FordsTowel

Or, perhaps, a strange lasting form of ball lightning?

smiley - towel

Actually, a couple of the proffered possibilities would not like last long enough for the many nights of treking the wise men undertook. Nor would the "star" have stayed where it could be followed; the earth spins and moves in its orbit, so most heavenly bodies are seen in positions relative to the viewer, not relative to the stable.

smiley - 2cents

smiley - towel

Gnomon: Glad you're staying around!!


Star of Bethlehem

Post 4

joehoward

Most speculations about the star of bethlehem seem to be searching for misinterpreted ntural phenomina and laced with doubt about its authenticity. They reflect the secularist bias of this era. The star was probably either an angel(agent) of God or a light produced by that agent. Since science has never proven that the ultimare chaos of a mythical Big Bang could have mindlessly resolved itself into the human mind, design must hsve a designer. Could not the designer (YHVH--the Eternal, called LORD in the KJV Bible translation), who turned himself into a human baby to understand the himan condition intimately and to die for repentant sinners, have arranged for the wisemen to be led to the house to which Mary and Joseph had moved? So many people, including scientists, have unthinkingly jumped into believing a speculation proposed and later declined by Charles Darwin, that star of bethlehem speculations are prejudiced by the Darwinism which indoctrinates all of us almost from birth. Lets open ou minds and examine the historical record written in the gospels impartially, not denying history because it records The existnce of a mind far greater than the composite intelligence of the human race. smiley - smiley


Star of Bethlehem

Post 5

Gnomon - time to move on

I was trying to find a rational explanation for it, because the most reasonable explanation is that the story was invented about 70 years after the event so that the followers of Jesus could say that there were miracles when he was born. The fact that he was born of a virgin, that wise men came to see him at his birth, and so on, are all aspects of the Religion of Mithras which were borrowed by Christianity to try and attract followers. They even took 25 December, the birth of Mithras, to be the day that Jesus was born, although there's no mention of it in the Bible.


Star of Bethlehem

Post 6

Gnomon - time to move on

>>Since science has never proven that the ultimare chaos of a mythical Big Bang could have mindlessly resolved itself into the human mind

Does that need to be proved? The Big Bang happened. We are here. We were produced by random evolution. All of these are facts which are accepted by all the world religions.

It's certainly the simplest possible explanation of us being here and talking about it.


Star of Bethlehem

Post 7

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

Well, the date of December 25th was adopted from the 4th Century to coincide with pre-established non-Christian festivals. Although the birth of Christ has been taken as the start of the Christian calendar, mistakes were made when Dionysius Exiguius (a monk) calculated this dating system in the 6th century. It has even been clained that Christ was born in 4BC or even earlier, as King Herod, who was clearly alive at the time of his birth, is recorded as dying in that year. (I'm not sure if you take this into account when you say that 'no comets are recorded for that time', Gnomon smiley - erm.

Reference Jupiter: David Hughes, Prof of Astronomy at Sheffield Uni, has discovered that 3 years efore Herod's death, there was a rare series of 'meetings' between Jupiter and Saturn in the night sky. The two planets came together 3 times over the course of several months. Duringf this time, the planets would have appeared to have been travelling backwards and, on specific days, to have actually stopped. All planets do this, but it is very rare for two do do so simultaneously.

Concerning the astrological significance, you mention Jupiter as being the royal 'star'. According to Hughes, their conjunction occurred in the consetllation of Pisces, this being the constellation associated with Israel.

There is evidence that the MNagi were able to predict this triple conjunction, thus giving them time to prepare for their 500 mile journey from Babylon to Jerusalem. According to Hughes, the conjunctions occurred in May, September and November in 7BC, 'so you have this lovely interval between May and the second sighting when they could have gone to Jerusalem'. According to Hughes, the idea is not so astounding that everyone in Jerusalem knew about it, but it was something that would have interested a rather serious Zoroastrian - the main religion of the Persian empire. They were charting the movements ofthe planets as far back as 1600BC.

It may be worth expanding the Entry to take in these points smiley - erm


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