h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Excellent article. You raised a lot of points I hadn't thought about but you forgot one which only really applies to women so I'll forgive you.

The thorny question of feminism and how that affects people's identity. For instance, a woman might supress her instinct to fall for men and encourage her woman-loving side for political reasons. For these women to 'go back in' is in some ways a threat to their feminist identity as well as their sexual identity.

I'd be interested to hear what anyone else has to say about this issue.

Well, it is a threat to their "feminist identity" only to the extent that they equate feminism with gender seperatism.

In this case, it might help to read alternate viewpoints on feminism that examine individual men's contributions to equality and women's (frequently inadvertent, occasionally intentional and misguided) contributions to their own gender oppression. That might help clear the mind for the person Going Back In, while also helping them to answer the inevitable questions and concerns from lesbian feminist friends.

There's no question that both Coming Out and Going Back In involve massive overhauls when it comes to personal identity. And because Western culture has stereotypes about orientation that touch heavily on gender constructs, one's identity as a man or woman may come under fire. I wish this weren't so, but such is the world we live in.

Quite right it is one aspect I overlooked because quite literally I was gender biased to the male viewpoint. I can see how that could cause added difficulties in the female cases of coming back in. Men expressing their feminie side on coming back in are a lot easier to get snapped up you just have to look at the number of straight women who yearn for gay men for that point to come across so I suppose it is a definite gender specific issue.

Come to think of it, men seek "lesbian" partners also. It's a huge porn stereotype, isn't iot? But you don't typically see them seeking lesbians to settle down with. They just want a bit of casual sex, or so the stereotype goes. But then, that may also be the porn speaking.

Actually, I think a straight man trying to settle down with a former lesbian might have the same issue some men have with bisexual women. That is, they might have trouble shaking the suspicion that they have been "settled on" by a partner who would deep down rather be with the other gender. They assume this because that's how they would feel in their partner's shoes! It sometimes takes a little education to help such a fellow appreciate the differences between their partner and them.

I think straight men do that in the vain hope of fulfilling their ultimate fantasy of a threesome with two women though.

DD said "Men expressing their feminie side on coming back in are a lot easier to get snapped up you just have to look at the number of straight women who yearn for gay men for that point to come across so I suppose it is a definite gender specific issue."

This is an interesting point, not really what I was getting at but well worth talking about. I think a lot of straight women might have more difficulty accepting a bisexual or 'formerly gay' man because of issues in our culture surrounding the male homosexual act (not sure if I can say s****y on this site) and fears about HIV and other gay related phobias whereas for most men lesbianism is the stuff of pornography and fantasy and doesn't reduce a woman's suitability for heterosexual union. The it's-not-real/what-do-lesbians-do? school of thought.


What I was talking about wasn't the idea that a woman going back in would have difficulty attracting a partner or that their 'masculine' side would prevent them being in a relationship with a man. By a conflict with a feminst identity I meant that the prospect of living with a woman shakes up so many of the presumed roles for women. To become involved with a man after a lesbian relationship reopens issues such as marriage, the prospect of pregnancy (either planned or not), the presumed secondary status of the woman's career or the decision to remain childless. In some ways, for women to go back in is to close a lot of doors or at least consider closing them. To go back in is to move from relationships where the power balance over each issue, each decision, each role is up for grabs, an extremely liberating but sometimes scary state to a relationship where there is a status quo, a presumed 'natural' order for doing things, a backdrop against which all decisions have to made, and justified.

I hope that makes some sense. I'm very tired... zzzzzzzz...

DD said "Men expressing their feminie side on coming back in are a lot easier to get snapped up you just have to look at the number of straight women who yearn for gay men for that point to come across so I suppose it is a definite gender specific issue."

This is an interesting point, not really what I was getting at but well worth talking about. I think a lot of straight women might have more difficulty accepting a bisexual or 'formerly gay' man because of issues in our culture surrounding the male homosexual act (not sure if I can say s****y on this site) and fears about HIV and other gay related phobias whereas for most men lesbianism is the stuff of pornography and fantasy and doesn't reduce a woman's suitability for heterosexual union. The it's-not-real/what-do-lesbians-do? school of thought.


What I was talking about wasn't the idea that a woman going back in would have difficulty attracting a partner or that their 'masculine' side would prevent them being in a relationship with a man. By a conflict with a feminst identity I meant that the prospect of living with a woman shakes up so many of the presumed roles for women. To become involved with a man after a lesbian relationship reopens issues such as marriage, the prospect of pregnancy (either planned or not), the presumed secondary status of the woman's career or the decision to remain childless. In some ways, for women to go back in is to close a lot of doors or at least consider closing them. To go back in is to move from relationships where the power balance over each issue, each decision, each role is up for grabs, an extremely liberating but sometimes scary state to a relationship where there is a status quo, a presumed 'natural' order for doing things, a backdrop against which all decisions have to made, and justified.

I hope that makes some sense. I'm very tired... zzzzzzzz...

So good you mentioned it twice.

Lesbian masculinity would appeal to some straight men as they do like a little more that a wall flower. Is pregnancy really that great a feminist issue. There are lesbians who want kids without paternal input just as much as straight women as well as women from both sides of the sexual orientation divide who let the male parent take on as full a role as possible.

As for the career role that takes on a difficult path in any relationship between partner whether gay or straight.

I wish I could spend more time responding but don't have it just at the present. Must fly.

"To go back in is to move from relationships where the power balance over each issue, each decision, each role is up for grabs, an extremely liberating but sometimes scary state to a relationship where there is a status quo, a presumed 'natural' order for doing things, a backdrop against which all decisions have to made, and justified."

Can you explain this more? Some gay women firmly believe in the gay-straight dialectics of opposing social forces in a straight-dominated society. How can individuals transcend the gay-straight binary to develop a committed and loving relationship?

Why would a feminist gay woman (an adult who has never been with a man and who also identifies as a "dyke") be unwilling to be in a long-term commitment with a straight man she supposedly loves? Would this be more of an internal struggle with her personal identity (i.e. coming to terms with romantic feelings and physical attraction for the opposite sex) or an unwillingness to struggle with the "'presumed' natural order for doing things" in a straight-dominated society? Or could it be the consequences of being considered a turncoat by the gay community for "going back in"?

Some clarification would be peacefully enlightening.