A Conversation for 'The Third Man' - the Film - and Vienna, Austria
Another Correction
Mo Power (Itching Cucumber, Lord of Nonsense elect) Started conversation Sep 9, 2000
The Viennese sewers you see in the movie aren«t Victorian as this type of architecture is typical for the UK - there is no Victorian Architecture in Vienna!
P.S. to all Americans reading this: YOU bombed down Vienna! (some Americans don«t seem to realize this fact)
Another Correction
PhilFogg Posted Sep 9, 2000
Yes.
Just like Austrians and Germans bombed down parts of England, every single city in Eastern Europe within their reach, and quite a number of other places. It's what you call war.
You don't want this s**t, don't start it.
It was Americans who build up Europe - esp. Germany and Austria - after the war was over.
Take a look at what other Europeans had in mind concerning Germany and Austria. It was not their finest hour, either.
Another Correction
Joe aka Arnia, Muse, Keeper, MathEd, Guru and Zen Cook (business is booming) Posted Sep 9, 2000
Mind you... the American government did that because a) it put other countries in their debt (morally as well as economically) and b) they were the only undamaged country from WW2.
Politics is *so* fun...
Anyway, given how useless they were fighting they needed to regain face some.
Another Correction
PhilFogg Posted Sep 9, 2000
The European stance on the future of the Axis had nothing to do with their own economic situation, as you imply.
Of course, you do have a point when saying that it was all a question of power - to a certain degree. The reasons for the Marshall plan etc. are in fact extremely complex, and many of them have absolutely nothing to do with American foreign policy in regard to Europe at all, but were in fact guided by interior developments that reach way back into American history a long time before the World Wars. Also, be aware that there is hardly any country that is presented in such a distorted way in Europe as American society and consequently its history. This is also true for many aspects of WW II and its aftermath, about which there are still a great many myths in existence. Morgenthau, for example, is totally overestimated; the man didn't matter the slightest little bit, not as a politician, nor as the almost-shaper of German society which he never was but is still widely thought of (and consequently serves as evidence against the evil American empire).
As I said, you have a point; however, esp. American foreign policy is shaped by such complex interior developments which totally evade most Europeans that one should always keep in mind that a mono-causal approach (esp. when motivated by political ideologies, not analysis of fact) may help make things easier explainable; in 99%, you'll be far off the mark, however.
In case of American after-war foreign policy to Europe, again, you do have a point; however, it represents only a very, very small aspect of this whole affair. I almost dare not say this, but you know what? Aside from petty power-plays, there were simple moral considerations behind this simultaniously. There, now I said it. Guess every true red-blooded European is going to shred me into tiny little bits now.... Please let me live. I'm just some stupid guy.
I don't want to chicken out of this, but I don't know if it is possible to discuss such an extremely difficult subject under these circumstances. All of this is only my opinion, of course, but I thought I should say this.
Aww, heck, you're right.... Politics suck!
Another Correction
Mo Power (Itching Cucumber, Lord of Nonsense elect) Posted Sep 10, 2000
I know that the Germans - and Austrians as well - also used to bomb cities, but YOU glorious Americans were the only ones who ever used the atomic bomb, and that YOU were using Napalm in the Vietnam war. And how about Albania? Air attacks without attempt of invasion or anything!
I apologize for this posting, but Americans sometimes seem to feel like the masters of the world.
Another Correction
Ashley Posted Sep 11, 2000
Just to let you all know, everything has been corrected.
Another Correction
Mo Power (Itching Cucumber, Lord of Nonsense elect) Posted Sep 11, 2000
Erm... sorry. I didn't want to kick off a political discussion, but I know an American who doesn't believe me the fact that the Americans ever bombed Austria.
I hope all is settled by now.
Another Correction
PhilFogg Posted Sep 12, 2000
Sure!
You know, there are a lot of Americans like the one you describe. One thing about America is, it's big, I mean, really BIG, and as a result, a lot of people tend to forget that there is actually a world on the outside, too. Some Americans are extremely naive when it comes to world politics (or politics in general). Usually, it's really nothing worse than naiveity, but I find that highly irritating, too. I know perfectly well what you mean!
Just don't talk to this guy about Vietnam or the Phillippines (or any other one of a thousand such topics), or you'll get him really confused, hehehe....
Key: Complain about this post
Another Correction
- 1: Mo Power (Itching Cucumber, Lord of Nonsense elect) (Sep 9, 2000)
- 2: PhilFogg (Sep 9, 2000)
- 3: Joe aka Arnia, Muse, Keeper, MathEd, Guru and Zen Cook (business is booming) (Sep 9, 2000)
- 4: PhilFogg (Sep 9, 2000)
- 5: Mo Power (Itching Cucumber, Lord of Nonsense elect) (Sep 10, 2000)
- 6: PhilFogg (Sep 11, 2000)
- 7: Ashley (Sep 11, 2000)
- 8: PhilFogg (Sep 11, 2000)
- 9: Mo Power (Itching Cucumber, Lord of Nonsense elect) (Sep 11, 2000)
- 10: PhilFogg (Sep 12, 2000)
- 11: Mo Power (Itching Cucumber, Lord of Nonsense elect) (Sep 12, 2000)
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