A Conversation for Traditional Children's Songs - UK

Please delete 'Redmen'

Post 1

Emmily ~ Roses are red, Peas are green, My face is a laugh, But yours is a scream

Please delete 'We are Redmen' song from my Entry. I would rather it was deleted from Entry, than have the Entry tainted with PC.

(I have deleted it from my copy of the Entry)

I'm not sure it suits the heading of 'Traditional Children's Songs - UK' it's not one that's well known. The Researcher who suggseted using it, did say it was old, maybe it's a song that's best left in the past.

smiley - cheers

smiley - rose

Please delete 'Redmen'

Post 2


smiley - sadfaceI'm saddened that this is what you've decided Emmily.smiley - sadface I had hoped (and suggested) that the redmen stay.

Please delete 'Redmen'

Post 3

Mol - on the new tablet

I think this is a sensible decision of Emmily's and I support it. Although there are historic notes about other songs in the entry, overall it is generally light in tone. I think that to do justice to the issues raised in the post-pick PR thread, any historic note about Redmen would have to be quite weighty.

One of the biggest challenges with this entry was narrowing its scope. There was always going to be the potential for several more children's song entries to come out of this one and one of those could be about the evolution of children's songs to reflect changes in cultural perception and reassessments of our pasts. I think that would be a fairer way of addressing the uncomfortable associations of "Redmen" without marginalizing them.


Please delete 'Redmen'

Post 4


It is well known in my area, i am a guide leader and my entire district has been singing this song for years (at least 15 years), it may just be that it isn't well known in your area.
It doesn't mean that it should be deleted.

Please delete 'Redmen'

Post 5

Emmily ~ Roses are red, Peas are green, My face is a laugh, But yours is a scream

Hi and Welcome to h2g2 Mandy, I've just left an Ace Welcome on your Space. smiley - smiley

There's quite a long story behind this thread, that I won't go into. Basically, what I learnt from this experience is that what seems innocent child's song in one part of the world, can be offensive in another. I included 'Redmen' in the Entry without knowing anything about the song, or the potential offence it could cause in another part of the world. In the end it wasn't deleted, the Editors added the paragraph above the song. smiley - oksmiley - smiley

smiley - bluebutterfly

Please delete 'Redmen'

Post 6


I know this song vey well. I am 34 years old and I used to sing this song at school over 25 years ago.

I have no idea what the song is about but in my mind it conjures up images of the tragic massacre of noble people.

The line 'back among the dead men' still sends shivers down my spine and I don't even know what it means. Calling native Americans 'Red Men' is something that happened - it is of a time and a place and does not imply any perjorative meaning.

In my mind there is nothing remotely offensive about this song - if anything it evokes a sense of sympathy with the people whose plight is recounted.

Do not deny history, instead try to understand it.

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