h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Good to see such a comprehensive article of our friendly neighbourhood Spider-Man. It covers everything you'd expect it to cover and the lines from the original Spider-man cartoon inro song as headers are a stroke of genious.

Only comment I had was the one I posted on Eddie Brock in the other thread, and also that probably I wouldn't have added Kingpin as one of Spidey's main enemies. To me, Kingpin is more of a nemesis of Daredevil. I probably would have added Mysterio, Chameleon or the Vulture as one of Spideys enemies.

Then again, that's just a side point.

Very good entry as I said.

But the Kingpin is one of spider-man's worst enemies. Just because Daredevil fights him too doesn't have anything to do with that. In the 1994 cartoon series the Kingpin is in every other episode making him spider-man's most important villain. And we all know the cartoons take the best bits of the comics and put them all together refined. It's really a shame the Daredevil movie had the Kingpin in it, I'd think that will hurt the chances of the Kingpin being in the Spider-man movies. He's like Spider-man's Lex Luthor.

No offence here, but the 1994 comic TV series is not a refinement of the best bits of the comic books.
If I were to list the top 5 villains, Kingpin would never even cross my mind.
I don't even think he'd be on my top 10 if I were to list Spideys villains.
Then again, that may be because I was a Spidey subscriber from about 1984 until 2000 and only stopped subscribing to the comics because I moved to another country in 1999. Made it a bit difficult to follow the comics. I never watched the animated series, mainly because of the poor effort that was "Spider-Man and Friends" or something like that from the mid-late 80's.

Hoever, if you were to ask me of Daredevli's top 5 enemies, KingPin would be up there together with Elektra and "The Hand" Clan (If I remember their name correctly).

KingPin will probably never appear in a Spider-Man movie, mainly because Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Hobgoblin, Venom, Mysterio, Chameleon, Kraven, Vulture, Sandman and Electro will be higher up in the list of enemies.
At least, that's my opinion and it may be biased as I speak from a comic book point of view instead of an animated series point of view, but it's my opinion nonetheless.

And it's a well respected opinion. Comic books are much harder to keep up with than a silly animated series. So that makes your knowledge much more valuable than mine, but from what I've seen in the movies so far, with the exception on Doctor Octopus not having that weird foreign accent and hair, the two villains in the Spider-man movies coorelate pretty well with the ones in the animated series.

The Kingpin kept the series united. Instead of Spider-man going around beating up a villain and then beating him up again later when he returned there was a mastermind in charge of most of the crime in New York, a continuous evil. That's probably what made him such a good villain for Daredevil.

The cartoon series and the new movies had the same goal in mind, which is to stick together the most marketable parts of Spider-man to make it as appealing as possible to audiences. That's why the series changed 'sinister six' to 'insidious six,' and 'Electro' to 'Shocker'. They don't look as good printed in a comic book, but when they're said outloud they sound better. A comic book being turned into a cartoon is like practice for a comic book being turned into a movie, so it's a more reliable source, just like the Hulk cartoon and the X-men cartoon ended up being more like the movies that hadn't even been made yet than the comics.

I have to say that I didn't think of the 'continuous evil' factor that Kingpin could bring into the picture, but when you mentioned it, it does seem like a pretty good idea to have something that ties them together.

However, that being said, I'm probably still a pedant when it comes to altering stuff from the original comic books of the Marvel Universe.

I was a bit miffed with the fact that they'd chosen the black leather suits for the X-Men in the movie cause they looked to me as if they would be a hinderance, and it looked to be too much stuffing to make them look good. But I came around in the end. After all, the comment by Cyclops about the "Yellow Spandex" was a nice treat.

Same with Spider-Man, when he didn't have his web-shooters but rather had those glands instead. But eventually, I came around as the technology that would be needed to produce them is a bit over the top, even for a geek like Peter Parker.

I wasn't sure I liked the change of Uncle Ben being subject to a car-jacking instad of a burglary, but that too made sense.
Also, the fact that it was MJ at the top of the bridge at the end, and not Gwen Stacy (Peter's first real girlfriend in the comic books) was a compromise I could take for the sake of the movie as it still tied in with the original comic book story-line with the Green Goblin.

So, even if I don't want to totally discard Kingpin as a major enemy to Spider-Man, I wouldn't say (froma comic book perspective) that he's been very influential in the history of Spider-Man as they have in deed crossed paths.


On a totally different note, I wonder if we'll ever see Felicia Hardy in the Spidey movies...

What do you think about all the liberties that have been taken with the superheroes relative levels of power? The Hulk, Spider-Man, Wolverine, and the Daredevil all used to be on nearly the same level of power in the comics, but in the movies the Hulk is the only one that retains the same level of strength and speed, it's pretty obvious movie Spider-Man couldn't hurt the Hulk at all, and Wolverine was toned-down even more, it's clear he couldn't hurt the movies' Spider-Man at all, and then the Daredevil is even worse, he certainly couldn't hurt Wolverine in anyway. So now none of the Marvel superheroes can be in any of the other's movies in their current state.

And what do you think about the genetic manipulation thing instead of the radiation? Now the song lyrics don't make sense. Is he strong? Listen bub, he's got... genetically engineered blood.

While you may be correct in saying that Spider-Man wouldn't be able to hurt the Hulk in the movie versions, I am pretty certain that Spidey wouldn't be able to do much damage to the Hulk in the comics either. And I never thought of the Hulk, Spidey, Wolvie and DD as being of equal strength on the comics. I think that the rank you described would be pretty accurate as the Hulk is the massive "tank" that he is, while Spidey have been genetically enhanced (even if it's by radiation or genetics. I'll come to that later) and thus are much stronger than a regular man. Wolverine, though, is just a very fit human, and his mutant power only increases his strength a bit while his 'real' power is his regeneration. Therefor, Wolvie can lift a lot, but he doesn't have super-human strength. Daredevil is a different matter totally, as he is pretty much Marvel's version of Batman. A regular Joe (Or Matt in DD's case ) that happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.
DD has his heightened senses, and is very agile and gymnastic, but he doesn't have any other super powers. He's just a guy that makes due with what he's got.

So if you got the perception of Daredevil being weaker than the rest of them, that's pretty much right according to the comics, IMO.

I think however, that we haven't really seen the full potential of Wolverine in the films. He showed a flash of his aggression and fighting in X-2, but I still think that was only scratching the surface of what he's capable of.

Now, the genetically modified spider of the movie versus the rediation poisoned spider of the comics.
In mu opinion, I think the vessel of Peter's transformation is merely a reflection of the society it's based on. When Spider-Man comics started out in the 60's (I think it was) everyone was afraid of the nuklear radiation of atomic bombs and the likes. Therefor, it would be a perfect way of explaining the transformation from a geeky Peter Parker, to the mighty Spider-Man.
Nowadays, the nuklear threat is much lass pronounced and people do not worry so much about it. Their attention has instead swung to genetic modofication of foods and the use of genetics in science. Therefor it is a prefect way of brining in the new generation of Spidey-fans while no totally alienating the old fans of yester-years.

I just realised what a complete I am...

On the subject of radiation vs genetic origins, what do you think of the changes made for the Hulk film?

As you will know, the original origin () is entirely due to gamma radiation. The blast hitting him when he saved Rick Jones (and don't you think Rick's absence from the film was interesting too? Almost like they are saving him for another film). The film origin says that Banner's father was manipulating his own DNA, and then conceived Bruce, which means his DNA was not base-human. But that the full power of his altered DNA wasn't unleashed until he had the radiation blast.

The new origin seems to bridge both ideas, genetics and radiation combined.


Geggs

Well, in the Hulk TV show from the 70's I believe, the Hulk genes were a genetic mutation that a select number of the people in the world had, but which lay dormant unless they were exposed to gamma radiation, and even then only intense situations would give them a small amount of super-strength for a short while. I don't know how they did it in all the Hulk comic books but I'm sure genetics were still involved even if they were just natural mutations. They need a 2nd part or else everyone bombarded with gamma rays would be expected to turn green and muscular. I think it's about time a superhero had two coincidences create him instead of one.

I have a vague recollection of Spider-Man and Wolverine fighting with the Hulk. Comics can't help themselves when it comes to having crossovers. I remember in one of the few Spider-Man comics I ever bought, a special edition one where he explained his powers to Mary Jane, that showed Spider-Man talking about his super speed and then showing a picture of the Hulk jumping or something with his fist out and like 10 blurry Spider-Mans all landing punches or kicks on him. Also, I think there was a comic thing where Wolverine fought the Hulk. And I know the Daredevil and Spider-Man hung out and did stuff together. That's just natural. Not too mention all the times Wolverine and Spider-Man fight. Wolverine has to have super-strength, otherwise he couldn't do all the stuff he does like fight Spiper-Man. The Wolverine in the movies got knocked out in one punch, which reminds me it's no leap to figure that if Wolverine beats up Sabertooth all the time in the comics, and Sabertooth fights the Hulk occasionally too then they must all be on relatively equal footing.

Marvel isn't owned by a single movie-making giant like Detective Comics are, and I suspect that explains why all their superheroes have wildly differing levels of power. The way it's always been in the comics and shows is that there are three levels of superhero. The most human level, the most popular member of which is Batman of course, where superpowers are just a matter being superior to normal humans. Then the second level, where Spider-Man's level of superheroes lies, against which mere mortals are helpless, like most of the X-men and the Fantastic Four. And there's no way a clear example of a first level superhero could ever hurt someone who is clearly a second level superhero. Finally, the third and godlike level, the most obvious example being Superman, as well as people like the Flash, Green Lantern, etc... who are invincible to heroes at Spider-Man's or Batman's level. Detective Comics doesn't seem to have any trouble keep their superheroes in the third and first levels, and this has the odd result that any person that Batman cannot defeat physically would have the ability to defeat Superman in a fight. Marvel on the otherhand has blurred lines when it comes to the levels and you get people like the Daredevil that seem to be between level 1 and 2 and people like the Hulk or possibly the Silver Surfer that are between levels 2 and 3 possibly. Additionally, groups like the X-men and the Fantastic Four's members by themselves are only about level 2, but when they are united with their teammates they are suddenly able to fight level 3 villains like Apocalypse or the Silver Surfer when he was bad.

And you thought you were a geek, I don't even own more than 20 comics and I came up with all this crap in my head.

Now, I have to say that I'm not that well versed in the ongoings of the Hulk, mainly because I could never figure out if he was a good guy or a bad guy when I was a kid. Therefor, he bored me, and I kind of fell away.
I think Kyle summed it up pretty well with the two-fold circumstances that needed to be present (ie. Genes AND radiation) to create the super-human. I've only seen the Huljkk movie once, and that was not very active viewing at that, so I don't really know. I think they made a pretty good job at portraying the fact that the HUlk isn't just a budy builder, but rather a 7 foot muscular monster, even if that required CGI to make it work.

Now, on the subject of the different levels of super-heroes the fact that Spidey could probably beat the Hulk in a fight even if the Hulk is a lot stronger is down to speed. For Spidey to be able to beat the Hulk, he'd need to jump around alot and hit the Hulk from all kinds of angles while dodging the one single massive blow from the Hulk that would knock Spidey out completely. Spidey needs to wear down the Hulk alot before being able to "win the fight".

A fight between Spidey and Wolverine would be a bit more evenly matched in the sense of the actual fight, since Wolvie have extensive martial arts training, according to the comic books whereas Spider-Man jumps around with no actual fight training. Same thing there, that one blow from Wolverine with his claws and Spidey would be out of action.
Wolverine does have heigtened strength levels as I pointed out in my previous post, and I'd think that he could possibly bench (if I remember the fact sheet about himfrom TOHOTMU) about 250-300 kilos without too much effort. Spidey, on the other hand can lift cars and small buses with very little effort, so he's got the strength advantage over Wolverine there.

Also, I don quite agree with your comment about the Flash being "invincible". He's a guy that lives on his speed advantage and that alone. He's not much stronger than Batman, but he uses his speed to his advantage to get out of trouble and help people and stuff.

Silver Surfer is just a chapter on his own as he's not even human. Silver Surfer was once the emissary of Galactus, the World-Eater and he broke free from the servitude to Galactus, and therefor he was shunned and confined to Earth for a while. His powers stem from galactic mega-powers and he is in deed virtually invincible.

If the Silver Surfer is invincible then how come his first appearance was in the Fantastic Four where they naturally got together and I assume beat him or at least fixed him? I remember the Silver Surfer got beaten up by a planet once and still survived so I agree with you that most of the time his character is virtually invincible. No one's superpowers have been tested until they've been attacked by a whole planet.

The thing about the comics was that they didn't need to physically show Spider-Man's speed so he could be everywhere. In the movies Spider-Man has to be a lot slower because a person just can't jump the way he seemed to in the comics. So there's no visual way Spider-Man could be seen beating the Hulk even if it's possible in the comics.

Now the veteran Flash can move at nearly the speed of light. I'd say that makes him invincible. He could kill anyone from Spider-Man's level like that. Can you imagine Spider-Man moving at the speed of light? No. I can't even imagine him moving at the speed of sound.

Except in an airplane, but it'd have to be a supersonic one.