h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Ok, maybe just a big mix-up then. Sorry for getting the wrong impression from what you said, and for giving you the wrong impression about what I wanted to say.

And another mix-up: I don't say I *believe* there to be an afterlife. I merely suggest that an afterlife might be possible even without believing in any kind of god. My wishing it to be so is *ofcourse* no explaination, but I can still hope, can't I?

THAT's also what I meant by not having to worry about it. I simply meant to say that the possibility of an afterlife, in my opinion, is not related to any belief in a god. I know how most people fail to see the logic in that, and I accept that fact. Good grief, even *I* don't always understand what I'm saying.

You may also not understand what I mean whenI say 'higher power'. (see my last post) I'm sorry about the mix up too.

Well, maybe that 'higher power' as you call it might be the same thing as the 'perpetual universal life-force' that I'm hoping to be part of. Why would an atheist not be able to believe in such a thing?

The difference between a god and this life-force might be that a god would have his own consciousness, his own agenda, whereas the universal life-force could still be an undiscovered natural phenomenon, much like gravity and most other forces of nature. Our lives are already subject to a lot of such forces, so why not this extra one that I just made up for the sake of it?

I'm with you... check my reply

But, I'm still hoping for something with conciesnousness (I no thatz spelt rong {I would have asked someone, but there's only my father here and he has to ask me how to spell bus}). Just so someone/thing could explain everything to me.

I admit we are very clever animals. This in no way justifies the existence of an afterlife, typically thought up in conjunction with religion as a reward for the pious. *If* you believe in God, and work hard, and obey *these* commandments, you will have *heaven* as your reward.

Nirvana is much the same. Reincarnation is much the same.

Anything justifying a reason to submit to society's will now (against your own will) and delivering utopia upon an individual's greatest fear is an invention to avoid that fear.

I will recieve no reward or punishment for my deeds or convictions; I choose to act in a way society will accept since I do not wish to die now. I fear death. I will not rely on the construct of an afterlife to allay my fear.

-jb

Yes - an atheist dismisses a sentient higher power (also known as a God). Atheist may believe in the non-material and in the afterlife. That has nothing to do with a higher power. If I believed in such powers, they would be nothing more than the gravity or electricity - just another force. They would not be self-aware and they would not make conscious decisions. Therefore it is possible to believe in an afterlife, believe that there are forces at work except those recognised by science yet still be an atheist. The difference is that atheists dismiss the idea of this deity that makes its own decisions.

Hehehe, if that's all you need, a consciousness that answers all your questions and explains everything, why not come to me? Or to any other member of this fine H2G2-society, for that matter? I'm sure some of us will gladly explain it all to you

RIGHT ON!

That's the spirit, isn't it? Not dismissing your fears *because* of some vague promise of an afterlife. Disconnect the fear of death from the *possible* reward of an afterlife, and suddenly you don't need a god anymore. Or am I now trying to make sense of something ridiculous?

I thought my last post would be lost (& never read again).

Thanks for finding it Mummy.

As for whether you're trying to make sense of something ridiculous, that depends on the firmness of your convictions.

-jb

Bummer... there was I, hoping you could help me out

lol.

Maybe. I just think that creating something to set aside a fear of the inevitable is just a little juvenile.

-jb

Juvenile? Maybe it's rather useless, but I wouldn't say juvenile.
On the other hand, as long as one doesn't have the illusion that they have avoided the inevitable, and still feels better just by creating this belief in some kind of afterlife -which doesn't hurt anyone-, why would we judge them?

We really shouldn't.

But it's hard not to judge others. Especially when they have something that we wish we could have but never will, like blind faith.

Still there are hordes of people that DO have blind faith and still are unhappy. They still judge others, for example because those others do not share the same faith. To me that implies that their faith is false.

And there are also people without faith that don't judge others for having or needing it.

I forgot my point here...

Whatever it was I agree.

You seem to be ok too... for an agnostic

I don't think anyone in here is judging believers for their blind faith. The problem is that that blind faith causes them to act in incredibly irrational ways, and it is their acts that we judge. Faith is all well and good, but don't force my kids to learn Creationism as if it were a science.

Much agreed. When I said juvenile, I ment 'voluntary ignorance'. Most (not all) people who believe in an afterlife do so because they are afraid of not existing. They have recognized that possibility, and refuse to acknowledge it, for they feel if they acknowledge it, it will happen.

People like this tend to think that they might have a say in what happens to them when they die.

-jb

A truth if ever I've seen one: "most people who believe in an afterlife, do so because they are afraid of not existing".

Very well put, jb!

I'll make a confession: I do NOT *believe* in an afterlife, but I *do* *hope* that something like that exists. Why? Simple...

Death may mean that I cease to exist, and that doesn't terrify me. It scares the shit out of me in all possible colors! I accept that it will happen, but I *hope* that it will not be the end of my consciousness.

Again: I am a true atheist, in that I do not *believe* in anything, not even in afterlife. I merely HOPE! This is a bit different, isn't it?