h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

The Christians may have been peddling their faith for 2000 years, but the idea's behind that faith started long before that. Christianity separated from Judaism, and Judaism pulled its original believers from a primitive, superstitious culture that worshiped and feared many natural events.

Since the events often happened at the worse possible time, and despite the fact that otherwise this culture would be enjoying itself, they rationalized that these events must be caused by a sentient being that didn't like them to enjoy themselves too much. Methods to appease these sentients included abstinence, fasting, prayer, sacrifice, etc.

At first, worship was on a village or community level. Once priests were able to practice their profession as their sole art (as opposed to having to farm with the rest of the bunch), they could proceed to excercise control over the populace, moving it in the dirrection of growth. Naturally, conflicts with neighboring tribes would take place, with involved tribes entreating their 'gods' to protect themselves, and do harm to the enemy.

Eventually, as one tribe began to dominate, their only accepted 'god' would become the God we've all come to not quite fully believe in today.

-jb

>Eventually, as one tribe began to dominate, their only accepted 'god' would become the God we've all come to not quite fully believe in today.

Great phrase. But anyway, from the looks of things, you might say that religion has advanced from the tribal stage to the metropolitan stage at the same pace as everything else. Mass-production and specialisation worked for them as well as for any other trade or art.

The only fashion in which they didn't keep up is, they kept with their original teachings too long and too literally, where they actually should have adjusted these to reflect the needs of more modern times. If someone can prove that we have evolved over a longer period of time, rather than to have been created in merely six days, they should adjust their teachings to have creation take place over a much longer period to make it acceptable.

Jesus Christ may actually have been the son of a carpenter Joseph and his young wife Mary, who at the moment of conception was *believed* to be a virgin. We may even assume that she wasn't even aware of the fact that her virginity was 'stolen', so to say. In which case those -in our eyes rather primitive- people may have regarded Jesus' birth as a miracle. I could accept that!

If they then start following his words, because they believe him to be something special, and his words do *indeed* show great wisdom -which we also can assume to be true- then it's also easy to see how the NT has come into being. That doesn't make the bible a work of some god, but it's still an impressive book of tales.

I do not literally *know* all of what's in the book, but what I do know is that I can't take it too literally, because at the time most of it takes place, writing is not a common pracice, so most stories will have been handed on orally, allowing for exaggerations, twisted truths, errors etc.

If the churches took those simple facts into account and adjusted their teachings to incorporate such annotations, they would be much more credible. But no, they hold fast to some almighty super-human that can't be seen and touched, but has a say in everything. And even though this alledged super-being shows some sadistical and arrogant tendencies if you take the books seriously, they still say he's good and loving and caring. If you use some common sense, it must be hard to digest such things.

Too true.

TM-here's something you might be interested in. One of the founding fathers, I'm pretty sure it was Jefferson, took a copy of the bible and cut out all the references to the supernatural. He ended up with just the moral teachings of Jesus. It's called Jefferson's Bible (if I'm right that he did it). I don't know if it's in print or not, but it's a neat idea.

If a printed version is available worldwide, I would certainly like to know about it, GreyRose. I think that it might come very close to what I expect it to be.

If you know an URL inside or out of H2G2 where I can sample this Jefferson's Bible, please don't hold back

I need to repost the URL from the group that I heard about the Jefferson Bible from. Americans United for the Seperation of Church and State. I went to see the head of the Oklahoma chapter speak and he mentioned it. I'll repost it, once I find it.

Jeff always has been one of my favorite philosophers, so I wouldn't mind giving it a look, myself.

Don't you remember, GB, me mentioning the Jefferson Bible is what got you to invite me over here in the first place.

Memory lapse, I guess... I've invited so many people to the FFFF, I can't remember the circumstances around each.

That would be your ancestral family. Now if I could just convince -mine- to fix those damn lottery numbers for me....

Why -can't- an athiest believe in something beyond the shell they now occupy?

I think where the confusion -might- be coming from is the 'theism' part... Atheists do not believe in a single omnipotent being (or several, as in the case of the Romans and Greeks, but each being a complete and individual entity) which created this world and/or which we all have to answer to in one way or another, and which control our lives and the universe. As bluDragon was trying (I think) to point out is the fact that this is the one decision that has to be made or not made to become Religious (yes, there is a god or gods), Agnostic (maybe there is, maybe there isn't -- not decided) or Atheist (No. I run my own life, damnit!)

Once -that- decision is made (or not, which is to say that one has decided not to decide) then there are many possibilities. An atheist might decide (but only for themself, mind you) that the concept of an afterlife was based on there being a God who was rewarding or punishing us, therefore, since there is no god, there is no afterlife. We are born, we live out the natural cycle of nature, and we die, end of story. Another might 'know' that for them, there have been lives before and will be lives after, interspersed with long or short periods of running about having a bit of fun haunting those still existing on this plane. Still another might hope to somehow become part of a universal life-force, and may or may not be sure this will happen, but hope for it. The point is, that these things are all beyond the basic decision of whether or not there is a god(ess).

Hope all that makes sense to at least -someone-.

'Nonnie

Heh.. The way I look at it.. if someone needs to believe that they will go to hell if they stand in a church steeple and start firing random bullets into the crowd below.. and if that belief is all that keeps them from doing it, by all means, let them believe.

'Nonnie

Sounds like Buddhism, on both counts. Reincarnation until enlightenment, and no God (but there is a higher spiritual plane). But Buddhism is a religion.

-jb

Maybe we do. Now that you've nearly got the first 10% open, try opening up that other 90% of your brainpower.

Who said anything about enlightenment? And even if I did (which I didn't this time but I have) define enlightenment.

I said nothing which should have been confused with a diety of any kind.

Enlightenment: the process where the individual (all individuals, according to Buddhism) through process of reincarnation, becomes aware, achieves enlightenment, and upon death of the body achieves nirvana, the universal spiritual plane. Not a diety, definitely a religion.

-jb

There is a difference between 'living' forever and 'existing' forever. Living forever assumes never to die, and to that I say no thank you (not that dying is in my -immediate- plans, but eventually...) Never to die means to get older and older and older .. ick. It also means no time to recharge your batteries (sleep just don't cut it after a while), and it also means being eternally hampered by the weight of a material existance.

The Jefferson Bible
by Douglas Lufton, Thomas Jefferson
List Price: $13.95
Hardcover (May 1995)
Henry Holt & Company, LLC; ISBN: 0805038531

Amazon.com editorial review:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ts/book-reviews/0805038531/ref%3Dpm%5Fdp%5Fln%5Fb%5F1/103-7518892-8469402

Other links:
http://hinkley.hamilton.on.ca/TRUTH/JeffersonBible/jeffb01.html
http://www.geocities.com/Athens/7842/jbindex.htm
http://www.angelfire.com/co/JeffersonBible/

Dont know anything about this, just posting the links.

}:=8

Americans United for Separation of Church and State
http://www.au.org

}:=8

Absolutely fantastic, blu. Thanx for the links and details. It's greatly appreciated!

But the point here is that you can be an atheist and believe that there is some kinda cycle of human existence involving being born in this world more than once.

This does NOT automatically mean that some conscious force set it up that way. It could just mean that's just the way it works, but we arent fully aware of it.

I personally am quite exhausted having completed around 2/3-3/4 of THIS life. I am hoping that when it is done, it will be done. Period. I have no desire to extend it. Especially if it means more of the same.

In the words of Luigi Pirandello:'life is but a loanshark; it exacts an unseemly high rate of interest for the small pleasures it provides'.

But NONE of this has anything to do with whether or not I think there is a conscious power directing it.

}:=8
PS doncha just love the way these messaages thread...makes it even harder to have a conversation--when you cant find the message someone sent in reply to something you said several posts ago.