h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

You're wrong, Dr Rodge. It was decided in Britain in about 1979 to follow the Americans and use the American billion. People have been doing so ever since.

I can't say what the French are doing, but I can't imagine them changing to suit either the British or the Germans.

Excuse me? I quoted Webster's New Collegiate Dictionary, so it isn't me that's wrong is it?

Here is the entry that is in Webster's Dictionary verbatim. It is a footnote to a table entitled "Denominations Above One Million".

"The American system of numeration for denominations above one million was modeled on the French system but more recently the French system has been changed to correspond to the German and British systems. In the American system each of the denominations above 1,000 millions (the American billion) is 1,000 times the one preceding (one trillion = 1,000 billions). In the British system the first denomination above 1,000 millions (the British milliard) is 1,000 times the preceding one, but each of the denominations above 1,000 milliards (the British billion), is 1,000,000 times the preceeding one (one trillion = 1,000,000 billions; one quadrillion = 1,000,000 trillions)."

If you wish to take it up with them, they are:

G & C Merriam Company
Springfield
Massachusetts
U.S.A.

Reading this thread, I can't keep from hearing Carl Saqan's voice in my head.

Traveller in Time still searching
"There was already a billion comments about in the Peer Review.

There seems to be no trace of it left "

For people without access to the OED (the definitive *British* source):

[a. F. billion, purposely formed in 16th c. to denote the second power of a MILLION (by substituting BI- prefix2 for the initial letters), trillion and quadrillion being similarly formed to denote its 3rd and 4th powers. The name appears not to have been adopted in Eng. before the end of the 17th c.: see quot. from Locke. Subsequently the application of the word was changed by French arithmeticians, figures being divided in numeration into groups of threes, instead of sixes, so that F. billion, trillion, denoted not the second and third powers of a million, but a thousand millions and a thousand thousand millions. In the 19th century, the U.S. adopted the French convention, but Britain retained the original and etymological use (to which France reverted in 1948).
Since 1951 the U.S. value, a thousand millions, has been increasingly used in Britain, especially in technical writing and, more recently, in journalism; but the older sense ‘a million millions’ is still common.]

1. orig. and still commonly in Great Britain: A million millions. (= U.S. trillion.)

2. In U.S., and increasingly in Britain: A thousand millions.


So, in Britain it's both, but the original meaning is becoming obsolete.

In science a billion is 10^9. In the financial world a billion is 10^9. A consensus is emerging that a billion is 10^9. Good enough for me.

This is an odd thing to attach national pride to.

Ste

Thanks, Ste. Odd of Dr Rodge to quote an American dictionary for the definitive word on what's current in Britain!

My quote came from the nearest dictionary to hand. It happened to be Webster's. I have a Webster's because I used to work for IBM. It helped us English communicate in our own language to those revolutionaries on the other side of the Atlantic.

However, having access to a Webster's was not always helpful. There was an occasion when I phoned a guy I didn't know at the IBM Kingston Laboratory. I announced myself and said that I was calling from the IBM Laboratory in England. He said, "the IBM what". I said, "the IBM Laboratory." This cycle was repeated several times when my office mate asked me why I kept repeating myself. When I told him, he said, "Tell him that you a calling from the IBM Labatory." I did and it was understood. If the American had phoned me, or anyone else at the laboratory and announced himself as calling from the Kingston "Labatory", we would have been able to make the jump. I guess it's because the English are so used to listening to others make a pig's ear of our language.

DrRodge, I'm a Brit in the US. Been here for nearly 5 years now. The communications issues when I first came here was quite ridiculous.

The biggest problem still I have is the word "water". I say "war-tuh" (Southern English phonetic pronounciation) whilst Californians say "wahh-turr". In restaraunts I have to constantly turn to my American wife to translate this simple request still. Sometimes I try to put on an American accent while asking for water. It works every now and again.



Ste

Most of us do NOT say "labatory". We just skip over the 'o'. We say "lab'ratory".

(Don't even ask us about aluminium).

Yes, we know all about alooominum.

My youngest daughter lives in Chicago. She has managed to retain her English pronunciation, as has her English husband who was one of my former students. Sadly, she has been unable to prevent her two sons picking up Mairc'n accents but she did managed to prevent them being circumcised. Fortunatley, she had been warned that American hostpitals circumsize males as a matter of course, and she practically had to stand guard over them to ensure the Chicago Hope didn't carry out such a barbaric procedure on her boys.

If only America had decent tea. I think they are still drinking the stuff they tipped into Boston Harbor! and I won't mention the

I had a Hershey chocolate santa a month ago. Never again.

I must admit... I love my iced tea. Tazo brand by itself or Luzianne with Celestial Seasonings Mandarine Orange Spice.

I can appreciate a good cuppa on occasion, don't get me wrong, but I grew up here in Texas with iced tea. I just recently weened myself off of the two cups of sugar per pot that is almost mandatory for southern iced tea so at least I now drink it 'neat'. I know all you Brits are probably cringing at the mere thought, but I do like it.