A Conversation for Monmouthshire: A County, but English or Welsh?

Monmouthshire - Let the people decide

Post 1


I thought it would be interesting to know how many of the people who love in the former historic English county of Monmouthshire (given to Wales for party political reasons in the 1970s by the UK's worst Prime Minister ever, the tory Edward Heath) would like to see their home county returned to England.

We now have a chance to obtain some sort of answer to the above. Although the media (honourable exception is the BBC) have largely ignored this development, the Government recently set up on the No.10 Downing Street website a facility for British citizens to create and sign up to e-petitions. I have set up such an e-petition calling on Her Majesty's Government to allow a referendum for the people of Monmouthshire to decide whether they wish to see their county remain in Wales or to return to a welcome home from England. Let the people decide!

If you live in Mommouthshire and wish to see such a referendum, search out the No. 10 Downing Street website, click on e-petitions and search for my e-petiton calling for a referendum for Monmouthshire.

There are two serious points here. Firstly, no British government should muck about with county or national boundaries. Governments are transitory affairs given a mandate for a few years to run public matters on the people's behalf. They really should refrain from meddling with national and local identities.

Secondly, the process leading to the break-up of the present unfair devolution settlement in the UK is clearly underway. The English sense of a national identity - so long supressed under the Union - is emerging into political and ordinary life. At some stage, an English Parliament is likely to emerge and to decide that the days of the "Union dividend" paid to Ulster, Wales and Scotland and as based on the "Barnett formula" are over. Wales without the present English (or rather London and South East England) subsidy will be much poorer than it is now. In this case it may not be just the English people in Monmouthshire wishing to be in England!

I am an official with a flourishing and rapidly growing registered political party, the English Democrats. Five years ago this party did not even exist. England is awakening.

Monmouthshire - Let the people decide

Post 2


The so-called English Democrats are about the only people who seriously believe that Monmouthshire was ever in England.

There is plenty of evidence to the contrary and no respectable modern historian, whether English or Welsh, would make such a claim.

Monmouthshire was created by Henry VIII in the Act of Union as part of the unification of Wales. The mistaken belief that it is in England is due to an anomaly in one part of that act, but the intentions of the draftees were clear - to establish the border of Wales, not to add another county to England.

Monmouthshire - Let the people decide

Post 3


The English Democrats have shown themselves to be racist liars no better than the BNP ..

This is what one of their members put on another site:

"Posted by: Steven Uncles, Kent on 8:34pm Sun 15 Apr 07
I think we should "DUMP" all Welsh, Scottish & Irish Politicians in the Thames so that we can have our English Parliament Back, and our English Money !
I think we should "DUMP" all Welsh, Scottish & Irish Politicians in the Thames so that we can have our English Parliament Back, and our English Money !"

No doubts at all - Monmouth is in Wales ....

1) William Shakespeare, writing in 1599 - after the Act of Union, had no doubt that Monmouth was in Wales. In a scene in Henry V before the Battle of Agincourt there is the following dualogue:
(Fluellen) "....and I do believe, your majesty takes no scorn to wear the leek upon St Tavy's day.
(King Henry) I wear it for a memorable honour; For I am Welsh, you know, good countryman." Henry, as we have seen, was born in Monmouth

2) In 1549 Edward VI granted a Charter to Monmouth which was described as being "in the Marches of Wales". The following writers describe Monmouthshire as being in Wales: Humphrey Llwyd (History of Cambria 1568); Churchyard (Worthiness of Wales 1587); Drayton (Polyolbion 1613); Enderbie (1666); and Doddridge (Historical Account of the Prince of Wales 1714.) In the reign of James I (1603-25), Camden and John Jones of Gelli Llyfdy wrote of "..the thirteen counties of Wales" and evidently included Monmouthshire in Wales.

3) Until the Industrial Revolution the dominant language in the county was Welsh. For instance, in 1815 half the inhabitants of Blaenafon could speak no English at all. By 1841 61% of the population of the town were still speaking Welsh, although the vast majority were bilingual by then, and even in the middle 1890s over 60% of the population in the western valleys were speaking Welsh.

4) Laws which were peculiar to Wales and which did not apply in England always included Monmouthshire, e.g.
a) Acts of Parliament referring to Welsh education such as the Welsh
Intermediate Education Act of 1889 included Monmouthshire in their provisions.

b) The Licensing Act enforcing Sunday closing applied to Monmouthshire
along with the rest of Wales, but did not apply to England.

c) Monmouthshire was included in the Welsh Cemeteries Act 1908

5) The Church of Wales came into being in 1920, when the disestablished church severed its links with Canterbury, and the Diocese of Monmouth was created in 1921 as part of that church.

6) In sport Monmouthshire players have always been eligible to play for Wales, but not for England. (Try telling the famous Pontypool front row of Graham Price, Bobby Windsor and Charlie Faulkner that they should have played for England !!!!!)

Monmouthshire - Let the people decide

Post 4


The English Democrats claims that Monmouthshire should be in England has been blown out of the water....

A map has been found showing the British Isles in the year 802 ..

Not only is Monmouthshire clearly in Wales but Cornwall was showing as West Wales ..

Jimmy Mckenzie who has run the "Monmouthshire is Welsh" campaign is clearly delighted at the news that everyone suspected anyway ..

" Now maybe the English Democrats will concentrate on their English Parliament Campaign and leave Wales intact" says Mr Mckenzie ..

Compelling proof Wales has been in Wales since year 802 ..

The English Democrats have scored an "own goal" the map has surfaced on a site run by one of their supporters: Dave White who posts as White43 on the St george blog site.



Same map on the map archive site:




Monmouthshire - Let the people decide

Post 5


You can find maps from the past which state that Wales doesn't even exist

This map shows The Principality of Wales to be only on the far west of Wales

Now personally I'm not bothered if Monmouth wants to be part of England or part of Wales, but surely it is up to the people who live there to decide!! Lets face it the map of the whole of Europe has changed over the last 100 years or so.

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