h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

If I could get away with it on h2g2 (and as a kid on h2g2), I would love to write an entry on the history of pornography, which despite other h2g2 entries on porn is not really covered. I have an interest in the subject that is purely historical and social (in addition to other, more obvious reasons to be interested in porn... ) and would love to see the subject covered on h2g2, as a sort of continuation of the research I did concerning Olympia Press (A12737829). I don't know if it would work, though. It's bound to be one of those borderline topics, and I don't even think porn can be covered as 'appropriately' as Emmily's BDSM entry that just went through PR managed to do. Besides, isn't everyone going to look at me askance? They know I'm 16 years old, after all; what's a 16-year-old doing openly acknowledging that they're familiar with porn? No one actually comes out and says it.

So, can I get away with writing this entry? (If I ever have any time, that is.) What should be in it? And does anyone want to help out?

I don't see why you couldn't write an entry on it. It'll come from a factual and historical point of view so it will not be X rated in itself. You’re not going to be writing a pornographic entry so I don’t see what you could be writing that might break house rules...Although if it makes editors choice and gets a blob it could do!

Touchy subject this, I'd suggest dropping the Eds an email privately and asking what they think.

I was going to write an entry on necrophilia after the Case of Carl von (forget his last name) went through PR but when I saw the sanitized version which hit the FP I changed my mind.

I think it would be a great idea, if only 'pour épater les italiques.' Have fun doing the research.

Two thoughts:

- At various stages in history, porn has migrated between the public and private spheres - eg Roman bath houses had pornographic murals. In our own times...porn was a shady, uinderground business, until it briefly came out in the public. In the late 60's (or was it early 70's)It was suddenly aceptable to go to a reasonably mainstream cinema to see 'Deep Throat' or 'Behind the Green Door'. The advent of VHS and then the internet changed that at it became a solo activity again...but now it's so ubiquitous that the phenomenon of 'Porn Chic' has emerged.

- Neolithic Venuses - 'officially' regarded as fertility symbols, much as anything that archeologists don't ubderstand is automatically labelled a 'ritual object.' But it seems entirely reaonable to suppose that the sexuality of neolithic humans was the same as ours. Flintsone Porn?

Martin Amis translated pornography as 'whore art'.

I think it's a wholy yappropriate subnject matter, given what the Internet has done for pornography, and that it is pretty much an everyday part of human life as said, from prehistory to now.

It's a big task though. You may find it developing into a University Project. Unless you are *really* succint.

I'd be quite happy to help out, I'm no expert on pornography, but am aware of the fine line between art and pornography and appreciate the humour in Thomas Rowlandson, Aubrey Beardsley, Fanny Hill, Lady Chatterley's Lover and the work of artists such as Vargas.

It depends what aspect you want to look into I guess. There's softcore, hardcore, visual, print, history, the future...

Yikes! Good luck.

Oh, and so what if you're sixteen? There's many prepubescent boys who know about pornography, it's just that you have the ability to write about the subject constructively, and not just say things like 'phwoar' and make silly jokes about little cowboys in Toy Story.

I'd advise against this. The final result would be either disturbing or misleading. You give some other valid reasons. This sounds really negative, I know, but how else I can say 'don't do it'...

*drops in from the INFO page*

I've seen you about enough to know that you could write a factual history and account of the subject, without being it straying into the unseemly. So I'd say go for it, but send a draft quietly by your e-mails to an Italic or two for opinions. If h2g2 is to be a "guide", it should be able to hold info of popular interest. Done tastefully.

Hi everyone

I'm leaning towards the idea of starting to write this, maybe during my next long weekend next month, and accumulating some research in the meantime, though I'll certainly do as GB and Nick suggest and drop the italics a line before I submit the entry to PR.

Thanks also for the factual input. I've been thinking about Neolithic Venuses all day (no, not *that* way); I think I may have to do some research. I need to finish Fanny Hill, too, and do a lot more reading. You know, this might well make a better Uni project than PR entry, as then I can let it take a year or however long my Uni projects are likely to take, and Uni projects lend themselves well to collaboration.

Andrew, before I do anything, though, I'd like to hear more of your opinion. Could you elaborate on what you mean by 'disturbing' and 'misleading'? It's my feeling that my two concerns can be solved: if I run the subject material by the italics I won't need to worry about it being yikesed as soon as I submit it to PR, and if I can attract other contributors I won't feel as ridiculous about having my child's name on this hypothetical entry. But I still don't really understand what you mean. I know some people consider some types of porn disturbing, but is your concern that this could happen with a hypothetical entry that discusses such types of porn? If you can explain this then, if I did end up writing an entry, I could write one that was less likely to be disturbing/misleading.

Thanks all for your input!

Don't mention Astarte, as the "multiple breast" theory is not considered as likely as the "bulls' testicles" theory.

The obvious trepidation over this is the reason a lot of grown ups are deserting h2g2. Pornography is a common human behavioural phenomenon and as such there's no reason on earth why it shouldn't be a subject for learned discourse. Wikipedia covers it.

There really shouldn't be any subject truly forbidden here though. This one included. A talented word-smith can write about and describe anything fully, without being titillating or offensive. I think EMR is certainly up to the challenge of a well rounded piece that stays comfortably within the margins.

>>A talented word-smith can write about and describe anything fully, without being titillating or offensive

You'd be surprised! Offensive - I can never predict what will offend people. A menstruating woman? A pork chop? Jesus in a nappy? Where's the offence? Titillation - even leaving aside pathological cases involving such things as shoes or paving slabs (yes, really!)...one only has to read the now notorious Girl With A One Track Mind blog. The blogger insists that she's tried to de-eroticise it. Frankly, she's failed. Although it might just be me.

Then there's Peter Cook on the Derek and Clive album:
'Dear C-words in charge of religion, your bible really gives me the horn.'

We just have to be grown up about it. We'll happily accept that someone might get excited about an Entry on, say, model railways or WWII battles. What's so different about someone being excited about porn?

Actually, I'd not be surprised at all. I've been around this little planet for some time. So yeah, there will always be someone out there that becomes excited about the most mundane or peculiar things. But contrary to some of the folks who are so worried about their posts not meeting up (or down) to current standards, I'm trying to hope that good writing, and intelligent judgement on the part of the rest of the community here (TPTB inclusive), no balanced entry ought to be beyond consideration.

Hello Echo.

Thank you for your invitation. I think the simplest way of putting my reservation is the following: I couldn't see how one can write an in-depth entry on pornography without actually transmitting some pornography - albeit in scholarly garb, but as the Castilian proverb below has it, 'a monkey is a monkey, though dressed in silk'.

The alternative of being 'misleading' relates to incompleteness, if no examples were given. But it's a much lesser objection.

If you manage to avoid the problems, there is still another thing I don't like, which is someone delving too much into all the stuff out there: an implicit value judgment, I know, but I don't see how it can be avoided one way or the other. Probably the least of the damage it does is the coarsening of sensibilities.

Someone mentioned Wikipedia: I have contributed there too, and I don't think h2g2 is worse for the omission.

I dislike emulating Cassandra, especially if apparently in a minority of one. I have no doubt that you have the ability to produce a good article on any topic, having seen you in action on other threads, and you already have my respect; that's why I saw this conversation. It's just that this subject is sticky – a potential snare for anyone, I mean, not only or even primarily the young. I myself would steer well clear.

'Aunque la mona se vista de seda, mona se queda.'

>>just that this subject is sticky

Quite!

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for elaborating on your point of view.

Of course, just as you go and elaborate, I've decided I want to start doing more research proper for this entry - so I may as well respond and state a case.

Porn is something that effects all of us, whether through a woman in a beer ad on television or in the websites we visit late at night. It deserves a place in the Guide, if said publication (if I may call it thus) is to be considered to have a broad range of subjects on Life, the Universe and Everything. Even if a person chooses not to deliberately watch/read porn and get off on it, he or she is still impacted by the sexuality of modern culture, which is still a type of pornography in a way.

In fact, if you want an objective view of the subject I think (though I say it myself) that I could do a great job. History of pornography is a favourite topic of mine - but not really because I find porn at all sexually interesting. I'm not old enough for that, perhaps, but it's fascinating because porn, in all its myriad varieties, tells us all we need to know about our culture. If we are to consider this the true Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, it could not be without this entry.

Wow, now I've managed to convince myself. Fun.

Andrew, I can only recommend that you visit the entry when it makes it to Peer Review (god knows when that will be) and help make sure the subject is given the mature, historical and scientific treatment it deserves.

I think you can handle it, Echo, and as long as it's done tastefully (for lack of a better word) - and I'm certain it will be - I don't see the problem.

Thank you for listening and taking the trouble to respond. Not to mention the recommendation (!)