h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Do you know what CAFO means If not then I suggest you put the word in to 'the' search engine and see what comes up. There are some interesting and horrifying plans afoot in the UK which are an affront to everyone who cares about people, proper food, wildlife, the environment and domesticated livestock.

I came across it and being ever curious I delved - and I almost wish I hadn't. I would be interested to see what other people think. I would particularly like to hear from people living near any of these planned monstrosities, and anyone in the US who knows of them.

Newspaper articles are helpful but personal anecdotes are often better.

Websailor

my words not printable


expression is though,I thought this barbaric method was being taken out over here ?

I agree with the Prof. I thought people were putting a stop to it.

Not nice, people. Don't do that.

without sounding morbid!

the 21st century and mankind's inhumanity to man and beast makes me some times wish that the "world" would end (giant asteroid impact)and let mother nature and evolution start again, might make same mistakes, but at least it would a good few 10,000's of years

No, no, no. I wish I could bottle and ship you the stench, so you could uncork the bottle under the nose of anyone who thinks this might be a good idea. Factory farming is unbelievably stinky, but that is the least of the problems.

The cattle end up sinking in layers of fecal matter - extremely unhealthy. The animals are crowded together, so they're under constant stress. Stressed out critters are more susceptible to disease.

To combat the disease-riddled nature of the operation, enormous quantities of antibiotics are administered to all the animals. Using vast amounts of antibiotics of course creates more problems, including resistant strains. More info is available here:

http://www.themeatrix.com/

http://www.foodincmovie.com/

Aside from all the human and animal health considerations, there's the little matter of flavor. You can actually taste the difference. The meat from properly raised free-range animals has real honest flavor. Factory meat is greaser, less flavorful, and cheaper.

Thanks for the input everyone

I find it gross that we have worked for years to get pigs out of stalls, chickens out of battery farms, calves not reared for veal in unnatural conditions, and now this I hope the people near to these planned aberrations kick up one of a stink, but we all need to shout to get it stopped.

It isn't as if those involved look as if they are they most trustworthy to be in charge

Badgers are being blamed for Btb yet the conditions these cattle would live in would be a breeding ground for such diseases far worse than anything we have seen so far, as I don't believe the badgers are the origin of this disease, just the unfortunate carriers.

You know folks, I could almost go vegetarian , something I never thought I would as long as I could get properly produced meat. It seems that lamb is about the only thing that is reared naturally, that's if you don't think about the residue of Chernobyl's explosion!

to be the bearer of bad news but I felt it desperately needed an airing.

Websailor

It certainly did desperately need an airing WS! I really have great difficulty in believing that such practices are still in operation. What can we do to stop it? Are there protests, are there petitions etc?

Why the fuss? Aren't pigs and chickens already tortured in this way?

Well yes! but why should anything else be treated in this way - we have to start somewhere!

One thing you can do is to only buy organic meat, because organic animals have to be looked after in a humane way, otherwise they don't get the certificate.

On the rare occasions that I buy meat, it is organic buffalo meat - locally sourced - with my high blood pressure and high cholesterol, I should be a veggie. However, I like meat and buffalo is apparently half the fat and half the cholesterol of usual meat supplies and I thoroughly agree that the taste is unbelievably different.

Perhaps that is still true where you are, Gnomon, but not here (USA). The large factory farming corporations have been able to obtain organic certification. With a lot of money comes a lot of clout, and they were able to get the definition of "organic" written their way.

If you give them a toehold, they'll do the same on your side of the pond.

Looking for the terms "free range" and "cage free" help. Buying from small local producers where you can actually see the animals and how they are treated also helps.

The fuss is about a way a life that you might not want to lose. There are serious health repercussions from this type of practice, and that costs us all. Saving a few pennies on flank steak does not make up for polluting the water we drink.

Meat can't be called "organic" here unless it is also free-range.

Gnomon, I agree with the others here. The 'fuss' is about a number of issues:

Animal welfare, human health, environmental degradation and big business clout. They have far too big a say and wind Govts. round their little fingers.

We have made progress with pigs, chickens and calves, and people are waking up to proper food again. I absolutely do not believe we cannot sustain ourselves producing food the natural way. After all most people eat far too much and waste even more, so less but better quality food makes good sense.

The idea that such mega 'farms' provide work is nonsense, such places need fewer employees and will put small farmers out of business. Close packed cattle, like close packed people become a recipe for disease, hence the need for more and more antibiotics which transmit problems to humans. As for growth hormones, that is appalling. What they are fed on is repulsive, and what they do with the waste slurry is both disgusting and dangerous. The US might get away with it because they have a huge amount of space, but here such places will be close to habitation and unavoidable for locals.

I am afraid I am not naive enough to think that they will not get away with such things here if they get their foot in the door. It is not difficult to pull the wool over the eyes of people already blinkered and obsessed by profits.

I really don't think because some of it is already happening that is a good enough reason to shrug our shoulders and accept it.

Websailor

Happy Nerd, thanks for the links. They get the message over simply and clearly. Thanks also for the American input.

Websailor

I've worked dairy farms which combine a concentrated feeding area with open pasturage, found them odor free.

I've also seen a dairy farm move involving conversion of pasturage to cultivation of forage to support a CAFO precisely to the point of reducing (and eliminating) pollution of the watershed. This one got rather stinky in the CAFO area but did succeed in eliminating pollution of a nearby stream course. Manure management in a case like this involves rotating feeding lots and regular harvest of manure for the garden trade.

Gnomon's suggestions on organic culture are good ones.

Of course Gnomon's suggestions are good ones, I would never dispute that, and it would be my ideal.

Neither do I dispute that properly and strictly run CAFOs might not pollute or smell but I still feel that it is not a natural process with a heap of negatives in the pipeline for the future.

I also think everyone has a right to their opinion, especially if they have experience of it, which is why I asked for input. Thanks for your comments.

Websailor

Hi there Websailor! So why are you so dead set against the Church Alliance for Orphans?

In all seriousness now.

I am of course in favour of raising animals as naturally as possible with all concern for their physical *and* mental health. And you know I don't eat meat either! This is an issue with the following dimensions:

1. Human health.
2. Environmental health.
3. Animal welfare.

Now for some people, number 3 is not important. For me all 3 are important. For most people the first two are important though some people really don't care much about the environment. But at least pretty much all *sane* people should care about number 1. And it would seem at any rate as if this high-intensity farming method ... I would indeed say, all high-intensity factory farming-style medthods ... are bad news for all those 3 points. My opinion.

I find this a disturbing and worrying issue. Part of the problem that fuels this kind of farming is that people on low incomes cannot afford to buy organic or free range meat. Having to resort to buying meat at the cheaper CAFO prices often means many people feel they cannot afford to care.

I am not sure what a good solution would be, although clearly CAFO is not it.

I feel the same Atticus, having spent the bulk of my life watching every I know that is a huge part of the problem. I can only say that looking at the contents of supermarket trollies, that buying less but better pays off in the bank balance and health.

Trollies piled high with cheap stuff, most of it not proper food is a huge worry. Even finding plain food can be a struggle.

CAFO is definitely not the way to go. Thanks for commenting.

Websailor