h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

To be honest I really don't know how to respond to the events of the last few days. I can't seem to get a proper word in on the already ongoing threads because I'm not really very rational about this and a lot of people in the threads are unbelievably rational(relatively speaking). For this I applaud you, but I can't do it. Every time I stumble upon a more or less 'rational' discussion I hear "Unknown number of casualties" in the back of my head and I see this :

[pressrelease]
Partial list of those killed in Tuesday's attacks :
-- Christine Hanson, 2, Massachusetts.
[/pressrelease]

To put it mildly : I am p*ss*d off like you wouldn't believe.

Yes, that's right : I am a lifelong pacifist who is really mad as H*ll. If they can provoke that response from me, then let the responsible idiots be extremely afraid of what the U.S.A. is going to do next.

IMO what happened on tuesday is the start of something entirely new. I am not talking about the retaliation that will undoubtedly follow at some time or another. I'm talking about the fact that the rules of warfare have now radically changed.

For years I have been critical of any aggression of one state or group against another. Even the U.S.A. could count on a critical word from me(for whatever that is worth by the way), if they used their military power. I did not gloat when Iraq was bombed, I did not agree every time that Israel bombed the westbank, and neither did I applaud the use of violence by *any* terrorist-group, left- or right-wing, religious or not. I opposed Neutron-bombs in Europe and in those days I even used to write the odd protest-song about it.

But the rules were simple : a state, especially the USA, would retaliate whenever they were attacked. And have a way out to make it possible to say "O.K. we have responded. This was it. We have achieved our 'goal'".

This is now history. The most stupid thing that anyone could have done just happened. A target was picked that has no direct military value whatsoever but instead held *tens of thousands* of civilians.

The ONE reason that the U.S.A. had to limit their response was the opinion of reasonable people in the western world. But what do I say to the americans now when they decide to bomb Afghanistan, Iraq or whatever country ? You are being uncivilized ? Not really. Not anymore. No one has a valid response any longer. The U.S.A. will simply point at the New York skyline and say : "Look mommy, no more Twin Towers".

This was not a terrorist act, this was indeed an act of war. As far as I know an unprovoked attack directly aimed at the heart of a nation is an act of war. And nothing else.

What makes me the most angry is that I now have no arguments left to defend 'a moderate stance'. I can't, because I keep hearing ""Unknown number of casualties" in the back of my head and I see :


Partial list of those killed in Tuesday's attacks :
-- Christine Hanson, 2, Massachusetts.


TM.

she was 3 not 2...not important when it comes to her death, fact is no matter how old she was she is still dead.
and let us not forget Juliana Valentine McCourt, 4, New London, Conn. or Asia Cottom, 11, a student at Backus Elementary School in Wasington or Rodney Dickens, 11, a student at Leckie Elementary School in Washington or siblings Zoe Falkenberg, 8 & Dana Falkenberg, 3 from University Park, Md.
the question of the day for me is this...what the H*LL did these children do to deserve to die?! can anyone answer this for me?
Monsy

No Monsy, I can't. And I doubt very much if anyone can...

TM.

'Rules are the result of civilization, not the cause'

one more day left (bush gave them 3 days to hand this man over) and from the looks of things they are not handing him over. can i openly admit that i am scared now?
Monsy
guess i will have to start a new list on my page soon for all the new deaths to come.

[quote]
can i openly admit that i am scared now?
Monsy
[/quote]

Yes you can. Everyone here is...

i'm glad i'm not the only one scared. it has been quite awhile since i have really slept and my anxiety is getting the best of me. my chest is tight, buterflies in my stomach, can't sit still and when i try i find myself tapping my fingers or toes on something.
i think i am doing very good at putting up a good front with the family and such as they don't seem to notice i feel like i am falling apart. hopefully they don't or maybe they will begin to fall too and that would make me feel worse .
how are things on your end with this? i hope none of what has happened finds its way to your doorstep............
Monsy

Hi Monsy,

I hope so too but it is futile to do so. The moment the sh*t hits the fan it is going to affect Europe in a big way too. And remember : we have a collective knowledge of WW II even though most of us weren't there... Here in the Netherlands I can show you numerous monuments and museums dedicated to WW II, including the very vivid images.
After last week no one can afford to stand at the sideline any longer.

For what it's worth : I will add some ramblings to my journal every now and then. Just to see if I can make heads or tails of all this.

For now : all we can do is to hang in there and see what happens next.

CYa,

TM.

i enjoy talking/typing with you and shazz both of you are very good at listening and responding.
i am also glad to see that you will keep posting journal entries because it helps me to be able to make heads or tails out of this as well. being able to see someone elses opinion is good for me. it makes me feel like i am not alone in my confusion.
so many of these forums that i have been watching or responding to end up so far in left field that it is hard to find them useful.
thank-you for your thoughts, keep them coming, and thank-you for your understanding.
Monsy
ps...i might be wrong for this thought but i am at least hopeful by the fact that our government did not rush out and start killing everything that moved. seems that, at least so far, they are trying to think things through first. i just hope that they continue thinking before acting because anything else could spell tragedy for so many more and that would be to terrible to imagine.

Hi Monsy,

Hardly anybody ever tells me I'm a good listener...

As far as I can see the U.S.A. cannot let this go by unpunished. On the other hand the Taleban cannot let Afghanistan be bombed without retaliating. The means they have to do so are limited, but you only need a limited crew to wreak havoc on the world, western world or otherwise.

My main concern is not so much that this could be WW III. The Russians, the Chinese, etcetera have nothing to gain from it. If they would they would have started WW III a long time ago. Besides, the Russians were kicked out of Afghanistan and left 30.000 dead soldiers behind. The Chinese have problems in the north of China and suspect Bin Laden to be responsible. They will not stand in the way of America when it responds(except for some retoric of course).

The problem as I see it is that once the U.S.A. responds, the Taleban(and cohorts) will launch a worldwide offensive of terrorist acts. They will be at war by that time so why should they be careful? This means that the situation might escalate even further and before you know both sides will have no way to back down.

And I really wouldn't know what to do about it. History teaches us that when the situation gets this messy it becomes impossible to reason your way out of it by means of politics. And when diplomacy fails war inevitably follows.

Reason is the keyword. When reason disappears all else goes out the window too. I have yet to see the reason in the arguments of the Taleban, Bin Laden etcetera. I think they quit using reason a long time ago. How much reason can you expect from a leadership that destroys its own cultural heritage as the Taleban did when they destroyed the ancient statues in Afghanistan? If they are prepared to do that in their own country how much consideration will they have for the rest of the world ? I keep coming up with : "None at all".

TM.

in other words we are in a loose loose situation. whether we back down and cower in a corner or come out with guns blaring we are going to have all h*ll break loose. what i mean by this is :

a) we don't do anything to the people responsible for these attacks. instead we sit in our safe little corner (or as safe as it can be) and figure out ways to keep them from doing something like this again. while we are sitting here trying to do this they are out there figuring new ways of attacking and causing us more pain and sorrow. more ways that we could never think of...i mean who would ever have thought someone would use our own planes as bombs? see what i mean.

or...

b) we fight. we go after whomever is responsible for this act and attempt to repay (best word i can come up with right now..long day for me) them for what they did. when we do this they then decide that they have nothing to loose so they once again begin coming up with bigger and better ways of causing us (and now possibly others) great amounts of pain and sorrow.

in the end, either way we go, there will be lots of pain and sorrow...lots of lost lives and freedoms.

one researcher i saw was explaining what they did when things like this (or as close to this as they could come) happened in their homeland. this researchers response was that they 'got used to it'. i might be wrong but i feel sorry for this researcher and every other researcher ( or nonresearcher) that does this. to be so beaten down that you just allow it to happen because that is what has always happened is terrible. it reminds me of an abused child that hides behind the furniture hoping their parent doesn't see them and take their anger out on them. maybe i shouldn't feel as i do but i don't want to 'get used to it'. i don't want to see a lot of innocent lives lost but at the same time i don't want to hide behind furniture. does this make sense?

as i said....either way it is a loose loose situation
Monsy