h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

No new articles for a week! Oh well, it was nice while it lasted! 'spect they are at lunch again!  

Hmm! Appears that some researchers are now acting as editors which is a good idea but I don't really understand why it is being kept secret - i get a little bit more disillusioned with this site every day and am finding it very difficult to work up any enthusiasm - I can't see where it is going but I know it is downhill!

I get the same feeling. That was the reason for the long time between my last 2 submitted entries. I find myself just wanting to visit 2-3 entries, and see what is happening. Also I think they are getting a lot of hit and run researchers, which probably affects their database. Oh well, we will see what happens

I am seriously thinking about hanging up a closed sign on my home page after DD and I have finished collaborating on our latest article which is still under construction but will be revealed hopefully at the weekend!

Don't go..You have contributed so much...You are valued member. All will become clear, they are just sorting themselves out a bit...

Look, you Ginger set up the rounders match. And you and Doug did it really well. Thank you for doing that. I went, and it was great day. Really good fun. Mark is away for next few days, I believe, going to a wedding or something.. But this website is in early days, only been going a few months. Tell someone if it's not working for you - Jim Lynn has a receptive ear. This works because we all contribute. Say what you want and they will listen. This is for us all to develop and that's what is good about it. And thanks for mentioning me on your page I am just going off to do appropriate link on mine...

I whole-heartedly lend my support to that!

Don't go, Ginger... Don't give h2g2 to prattlers and spam artists. This place really wouldn't be the same without you.

At the risk of seeming melodramatic, I think that losing your interest and contribution would mark this project as a failure. After all, if you feel alienated, who is this really directed to? What is the point of the exercise?

Me too.

Seriously, Nobody's deliberately keeping secrets (on our side anyway - I can't be responsible for the behaviour of field researchers). I try and be upfront about new features when they're ready for everyone to use. If they're not, I might be cagey about them.

We've just started an experiment in 'peer editing' where a handful of researchers were asked to vet submitted entries for possible inclusion in the Guide. This will hopefully speed up the acceptance process.

We're only in the very early stages, but it's working well so far. Unfortunately, since we're rejecting more articles than we're accepting, the number of new articles appearing doesn't necessarily reflect the speed that the backlog is moving.

It would be nice, in the future, if the editing process were to be made more 'transparent'. There's currently no way to see how far your article is along in the queue. I'd like you to be able to see, for example, that there are n articles ahead of you, or it's being looked at by editor x. All this will come in the future. In the meantime all we can ask is that you bear with us.

We're typing as fast as we can.

Don't go Ginger, it's fun to have you around. I wouldn't get jealous of these new researcher editors, sounds far to much like hard work to me. Although if I was offered the Job I wouldn't say no

Ginger,

Please don't go. I only got to know you as a friend very recently, but if it wasn't for a forum like this, I would have never gotten to know you. Don't let time wasters get the better of you and h2g2.

TDV could have waited until they got everything up an running correctly, but they let us come in and start discussing and entering entries, and also stress test h2g2. It's what we do that makes h2g2. I don't think I am cut out as a Field Editor, but without the mind of the person who thought of it, it would take longer for entries to be accepted.

Jim - Thanks for the direct answer. I understand why you might have to keep us guessing sometimes, but it is nice to know what is going on. We kind of had it figured out, but it is nice to know your intentions.

Ginger - I must add my "Don't Go!" to the chorus. You have had too much of an influence here to leave it all behind this soon. I believe that peer editing is a great idea, assuming the peers are chosen wisely. From what I have seen so far, this would seem to be the case. I take comfort in Jim's answer, and believe this will end up for the best.

Okay, everyone stop panicking! I am going to have to learn not to actually put what I am thinking into my journal!

I think a few issues have got mixed up here:

1) I think using some researchers as editors is a good idea if they are capable of the job. Anything that clears the backlog and promotes user ownership of the guide has to be good. I hasten to add that I am not and never will be one of those people - I'm really not very good at editing other people's work, a fact proven to be true in my real life job!

2) The keeping it quiet thing did annoy me because it seems that is how everything is dealt with on h2g2. There needs to be a bit more Glasnost in informing the users of what is going on even if it is a vague statement saying "We are trying an experiment where users are acting as editors in an effort to clear the backlog of submissions." Keeping it secret when it's obvious what is going on is just treating us like we are stupid. I do appreciate that probably was not the intention though!

I personally feel that getting the volunteer researchers to keep things quiet from others just creates too much of an us and them situation!

3) My posting about thinking of hanging up the closed sign has nothing at all to do with this experiement or the secrecy thing. For a while now I have had difficulty in seeing the big picture. I know we are all at point A but can't see which direction point B is in. The initial idea of creating the guide was to have this huge database of everything you'd ever want to know but I can't see what TDV get out of it and I can't really see what I will get out of it either. It will take years of us monkeys tapping away at our keyboards to even get close to being useful and I think most researchers will lose inspiration long before that. I suppose that is what it boils down to - I have lost both inspiration and motivation at the same time.

4) Hanging up the closed sign, if I do it, will never be final. Doug and I are releasing a cartoon site this weekend (along the lines of the curry house thing) which will take some managing and we fully intend writing a comprehensive guide to Florence after our holiday. Maybe I'm just going to aim for quality rather than quantity on the submissions front and make sure I only write about things I really need to write about because then completing an article to my satisfaction is my personal goal rather than getting it accepted into the guide.

I've probably bored you all now and I'm terribly sorry if you all thought I was having a pissy-fit! (My friends call be Miss Pissy-Pants behind my back and think I don't know about it!) It was very nice to have the vote of confidence though so thanks!

I should also point out that in my previous post, when I referred to 'other researchers keeping things secret' I was referring to the margin references business, where people found things out by themselves, which I know upset some people. I was not referring to those on the sub-editor project, since they were asked not to let anyone know until it had been running for a little while. As it is, it's only been running for just over a week, so it's not as if we've really had time to do more than get it started, let alone think about how to announce it publicly.

And if you write a good factual article about Florence for your own personal satisfaction, it will most likely be accepted as an official entry in the guide anyway. Why are we here? - well writing is fun, but the other big part is the 'community' side of it. Bought fun with rounders, new friends, it's a nice place to be. TDV just want people in their cyber-corridors...

Maybe I'll feel better when I can actually see things moving in terms of being rejected/accepted. It is hard to get motivated or inspired when all your work just falls into a black hole. I'm sure I'll feel better once I've had a holiday too - although I am wondering just how much time will be spent researching for the article as we are planning an awful lot of time spent drinking wine and walking by the side of the Arno.

Ginger, in regards to your point 3: The idea of h2g2 as a massive useful repository of human knowledge is a vital focus, but it's not the only one. Another is the idea of h2g2 as a community hub where people can meet and talk about all sorts of things. It's also a place where people can set up their own homesteads and write about anything they like and have an open feedback system.

We always knew that it'd take a long time before h2g2 was a useful reference site, but we also knew that the community aspects would grow much faster, and they have. h2g2 is already a great community site: at the moment we get about a thousand forum postings a day, and we've barely started publicising the site yet. Information gathering excercises such as the old wives' tales and cocktail recipes show what a mine of useful info our community is, but it's not just about information, it's about communication, and I think h2g2 is already fulfilling a good chunk of our hopes there. (And, as one of the most active community members, you've been an amazing help in that!)

As to what TDV is getting out of putting a big site live for free, well, you could ask that of any of the other major sites on the web. We have various business plans, some of which will go into action soon, others that are scheduled for much later down the line. (Don't worry, though - you won't be charged in the future for what you're getting free now) However, we also have a genuine wish to create a really useful and fun site on the web, the sort of site we'd really like to visit. (Personally, I'd be taking part in h2g2 even if I wasn't at TDV.) We know that you all do too.

Be assured - we know where we're going and we ARE getting there.

-- Yoz

Thanks Yoz, that has explained a few things. I do find, though, that the good discussions are getting few and far between nowadays. A lot of people aren't writing as much in order to give a chance to clear the backlog, but I've also found little to say about a lot of the articles that are being accepted. To get discussions going etc there need to be some more controversial entries - a little bit of bias never hurt anyone so long as the author is prepared to accept that there is another point of view. I'll give it some thought and see if I can come up with a concrete idea - I'm thinking along the lines of having current affairs articles or something. I don't like to just whinge and present problems without having some attempt at coming up with a solution.

I think more opinion would be welcome. The great strength of h2g2 is that *everything* is a subject of discussion. Film reviews, book reviews, restaurant reviews, all these are ideal fodder. There's only so many humourous descriptions of a pencil that you can read before deciding you've had enough, but diverse opinions on things you're interested in can be continually entertaining.

Trouble at the moment is that if you submit an article on something that is currently under discussion, by the time most people will get to read it, it will be old news. Like I say I'm going to have a think and see if I can come up with any ideas and we'll pass any suggestions to you to do with what you will!