h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Yes, Christmas , is tomorrow, and we are prepared... (I think.)
So, in the midst of all this welcome and lovely sun, I just want to wish everyone a wonderful time, a happy day and a marvellous holiday with their families. If anyone hasn't got the chance to be with their families (or hasn't got a lovely family to be with) I am to hear that.
If they have to work, I suppose it all depends on the nature of the work. Doctors, fire fighters and the like will be used to it, but my sympathies anyway, unless you enjoy your work a lot.
Remember - Jesus is the Reason for the Season!

That's a great sentiment, Adele.

Hi Adele

"Remember - Jesus is the Reason for the Season!"

Er... no he isn't. The festival of midwinter was hijacked by the Christians. The latest research puts Jesus's probable birthdate as being 7th March, 7 BC.

What you are doing is celebrating the birth of the New Sun, Sol Invictus. Thanks for contributing to our pagan festival .

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

Matholwch - about the hijacking of a pagan festival, I already knew that! Did you think that news would upset me?
But in the estimated 2000 years since then, Jesus has become the reason for the season. Few people know about Sol Invictus, and even fewer celebrate "the all-conquering sun".
NB - We are having summer now - but it is pouring with rain. Aotearoa (the other name of New Zealand) means "land of the long white (all-conquering) cloud!"

Hi Adele .

My you are a feisty one. If you ask your 'sister' Della you will discover that I am not one to go about deliberately upsetting people (unlike my good friends Member/Hoo or Justin). Though I do occasionally do so inadvertently and if you are upset I apologise.

The actual move to celebrating Christmas at winter solstice only began in about the 5th century AD, when the early Roman Church authorities gave up trying to suppress the ordinary people's customs and traditions.

It is, of course, only one of many festivals that were hijacked. But hey you can't keep a good pagan down. So now that the Christian Churches' grip on temporal power has been eroded by an increasingly secular state, we are beginning to reclaim our ancient heritage.

Anyhoo the season, and its reason, were in existence millenia prior to the birth of your Messiah and thus he is not the reason for it .

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

Matholwch, although that may be technically correct, it's all rather irrelevant. The vast majority of people in the western world believe it's the birth of Christ they're commemorating when they acknowledge the Christmas season. All that matters is that people believe they're celebrating a christian festival and in light of the fact that they've hijacked this christian festival and turned it into a cynical orgy of greed and commercialism - then yes they do need to be reminded that Jesus is (or rather should be) the reason.

Hi Empty Sky

"...then yes they do need to be reminded that Jesus is (or rather should be) the reason".

Why? I see no reason to ruin everyone's fun by reminding them of that increasingly irrelevant near-eastern cult. What is there to celebrate by regarding them as the founder of the feast? Their homophobia, mysogyny, intolerance or murderous intent?

I think not.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

"Why?"

Simple. Because they BELIEVE they are acknowledging the birth of christ by celebrating the season. (Remember all those carols, cards, nativity plays etc.) AT THE VERY LEAST they should be reminded of the hyprocisy of this perception.

Oh, and homophobia, mysogyny, intolerance and murderous intent are not (I repeat not) integral to christianity. To imply they are shows a real lack of understanding of christianity. It's particularly sad when people condemn christianity purely out of ignorance. They are simply some of the things people do in the name of christianity, in much the same way that people deface other religions by committing atrocities while claiming to practice that religion.

You are right, Empty Sky, when you say that those negative things are not intrinsic to Christiantiy - or to any religion, for that matter!
Christianity is no longer really a Christian festival, but a commercial one - and that's a terrible pity - for a while there, it was a symbol of sweet hopefulness...however, capitalism took over. I can understand the point of view of Jehovah's Witnesses and their refusal to celebrate Christmas (or any birthday, though I don't why.)

Hi Empty Sky

As any of the regulars on this forum will tell you I take a lot of interest in Christianity and have studied it in some depth, thus do not consider myself to be "ignorant" of reality of its practice today.

"Oh, and homophobia, mysogyny, intolerance and murderous intent are not (I repeat not) integral to christianity."

Really? Perhaps you can explain the furore caused by the ordination of first women and later homosexual priests amongst both the various church authorities and the lay populace?

Or perhaps the continued huge effort by the Christian churches to evangelise their religion on the populations of other faiths?

As for murderous intent how about the propagation of lies about the efficacy of condoms against HiV. This will expose and eventually condemn millions to a slow and preventable death, all to support the dogma of a christian church.

How is this not integral to the reality of christianity in the 21sy century?

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.

"Perhaps you can explain the furore caused by the ordination of first women and later homosexual priests amongst both the various church authorities and the lay populace?"

Yes, quite easily. That is simply the enactment of the policies of particular churches. Not the dogma or intention of christianity. Again it comes down to people acting in a certain way and doing it in the name of the religion they supposedly subscribe to.

"Or perhaps the continued huge effort by the Christian churches to evangelise their religion on the populations of other faiths?"

I don't see a problem with this. Which do you define it as? Homophobia, misogyny, intolerance or murder? As far as I can see, it's none of those things. ALL theistic religions are mutually exclusive (that is, they believe and state that their's is the right way, to the exclusion of all others) so by definition, they have an obligation to try to spread their beliefs. Not for many centuries has anyone actually been forced to embrace christianity.

"As for murderous intent how about the propagation of lies about the efficacy of condoms against HiV. This will expose and eventually condemn millions to a slow and preventable death, all to support the dogma of a christian church."

Again you're confusing christianity with the actions of individuals. They're not the same thing and you do christianity a dis-service. But then you seem determined to do christianity a dis-service. Do you have some kind of personal axe to grind?

Hi Empty Sky

I have no axe to grind with christians per se, but I will not turn a blind eye to the intolerances and other hatreds their churches spread.

What you call the dogma of the churches is represented in the christians' holy book in graphic detail with clearly prescribed punishments for homosexuals and unbelievers etc. I suggest that you read the Bible from stem to stern, but try to look at it as if you were a stranger. It may surprise you both with its moments of true beauty and in its depths of merciless savagery. It is preached from the pulpits of every denomination, and I have attended most of them and witnessed that in all its sadness.

Evangelism is a proactive form of intolerance for it proposes that your own native faith has no value and it needs to be replaced with christianity. It is untrue that all theistic religions are mutually exclusive. Good people of all these religions and paths can live and work together.

Where we druids and many others try to spread interfaith dialogue and spiritual tolerance we come face to face with these evangelists spreading lies and hatred time and again. The real problem lies in that so many ordinary christians believe these blaggards, and there is the rub.

Thus when I find intolerance here, such as that preached by JtP and others, I will expose it, question it, and challenge it. People learn from being challenged it makes them think through their arguments and possibly changes their perspective. You will note though that I do not attack the person ,as does Hoo/Member, it is unnecessary and ultimately self-defeating.

I hope this gives you a clearer perspective of my position.

Blessings,
Matholwch /|\.