h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"I'm a socialist - used to be a member of the Communist Party in Denmark - because of the theories about how to regard humans as equals no matter whom your parents are, how much money you possess, how good an education you have, which gender, age and religion and because of the thoughts about cooperative society (give what you can and have what you need - which in theory should enable everybody to pursue their dream of quality in life without harming or oppressing anybody) opposed to an egotistic society where some people are more equal and free than other people."

Compare with:
"* All lives—no matter where they are being led—have equal value.
* To whom much is given, much is expected. "

Guess who wrote the latter...

The Prophet Jesus of Nazareth!

A bit more contemprary than that. Try Googling for the exact wording...

I was only going by Luke. Recently, bill gates, walmart, and john f kennedy. A lot of people having more than the rest of us seem to quote early religious leaders.

Theories are thoughts which in print are wonderful. Unfortunately people can't or don't live their lives as they would like. Their chemical or neuron imbalances make them unpredictable.

Creating charities doesn't get one into heaven. But then, nor does being a good person according to a Lutheran minister I heard when I was 18.

A person goes out of their way to help someone is admirable. A government that steals the money from your earnings and gives it away is not so admirable. Especially when the bulk of the money lines their pockets and goes to their, not neccesariy charitable, projects.

My youngest son does not understand and even seems to be upset towards me when I go out of my way to help someone in a distressful situation. What he doesn't seem to understand it is my small way of repaying the many people who have shown me kindness in my 60-plus years. I really believe there are a many, many more people who will go out of their way than not to help someone.

Oh well, my son says I talk to much and he is probably right about that.

That was a direct quote from the Gates Foundation website.

I suppose the point I was making was that people who that no-one would describe as being a 'socialist' seem to share some socialist values. They seem to be more concerned with ends rather than means.

mofolo, tell your son that 'do unto others as you wish others do unto you' is not an argument for doing right in itself. it is just a way to demonstrate why it is important that we all do right.

MoFoLo: "A person goes out of their way to help someone is admirable. A government that steals the money from your earnings and gives it away is not so admirable."

Stealing from your earnings is an interesting one. If you provide a service which people pay you for, and shareholders who do not provide that service take a cut of the money without doing anything, are they stealing from your earnings too?

shareholders will say they take a risk whenever they buy a share

marxists will say shareholding is stealing

fact is shareholders (can) do nothing to increase the value of their shares

Don't know that much about shareholders. I buy because I love to gamble.

Don't know much about shareholding. I thought that by buying shares you help the company and if the company does well it thanks you by paying dividends. If it does poorly you may end up losing your investment. Is this incorrect?

Actually I bought one share many years ago of a surgical supply manufacturer and now have five shares. Hope that doesn't make me a

I bought my son one share of a gum manufacturer and now has four shares plus he gets a box of the newest gum on the market every December.

the thing is if you buy a share for say 100 dollars and its value increases so much you can sell it again for 120 you make a profit of 20 percent

but who actually created the extra value? who worked hard enough to get you the 20 bucks?

I'm following this, but have had a lot of responsibillity for a big conference plus deadlines etc -

Good question, Pierce. That's what I always ask my bank advisor when she urges me to buy shares for my pension money. She cannot answer.

shareholders like to refer to their "w*rk free income"

there is no such thing

I thought the companies that sell their shares use the money for advertisement and product improvement. I'm not sure where this is going. Are you saying investing is a bad thing?

the whole idea of capitalism is a bad thing, imho

many say that communism collapsed and proved itself wrong when the wall (between east and west germany) came down and the soviet union was dissolved and they started to have democratic elections

i will not start a debate about this here and now, but i ask you: just how much better is capitalism when millions and millions are unemployed, homeless, starving, sick and what have you?

Ain't that pretty much the same all over the world?

As for the millions and millions I hope you aren't talking about where I live. That is just so untrue. But I won't argue. Politics and religion are very dangerous subjects, especially when the two sides can't see each other's side. Too often their viewpoints may be distorted by media.

But you are right this is not the conversation for that subject. This conversation is about Tart's being stretched all over the place between home, family and jobs. Also about mental health and coping. She is quite a writer. I looked at a couple of her articles and I can tell you I didn't understand one thing she said. I only learned English. I admit it, I'm a dummy.




PS. I believe I have an understanding of your beliefs. I just don't buy into them. I'm not saying you are wrong, I am saying I prefer my beliefs for me. Oh, and one more reason I won't argue with you - you're a hell of a lot smarter than me. I wouldn't have a snowball's chance in hades in winning a debate with you. I'm not saying this to be gratuitous, it is just the ways things are.

i'm not that smart, really. note how i can't come up with answers, only questions?

fact is we don't have any system anywhere onm this planet that is perfect

and yes, even in the US of A there are many many thousands who live on the streets, don't get proper meals, medical care and stuff like that

even in our small country there are way too many underprivileged. however i believe we can take better care of people. for one thing because we have the advantage of being a small country where it is easier to act fast and change systems that don't w*rk

but mainly because we believe that the whole society benefits if we all pay taxes to keep everybodys heads above the waterline so to speak

anyway, you are right, this may not be the place to discuss these matters - and i have to return to w*rk anyway

just for a few hours, though. then i'm off for holidays

I'd like to quote Hati: "Holidays, again?"

I think a system - even a 'perfect' system - is just as good as the people managing it. Unfortunately it seems to be true that power corrupts man/woman.

Like Pierce, I think that every individual in a society/community - be it as small as a family, a tribe, or big as a nation - should contribute to the common best, keeping every individual above the waterline. In Denmark it is said that you can measure the value of the community by the way it treats the most vulnerable people in it.

I will not let one of my four children starve or go without healthcare because I wanted a new dress for myself. I contribute with my taxes so the neigbour's son can go to school for free, my opposite neighbour can be treated for cancer for free, the pensioneer behind has a decent monthly income having left the labour market, cronically ill don't have to pay so much for their medicine, the roads can be mended for the good of all traficants, for independent research, upkeeping of cultural institutions etc. My taxes even go to the military

How are you military and prisons paid for, Mofolo? - Taxes, or charity, or by companies or...?

Military is most likely out of Federal Taxes. Charities come out of Federal, State, County and City Taxes. Citizens, even those retired and living on pensions pay taxes and so do companies. In Ohio, we pay taxes on our earnings, on our properties, on purchases, and our inheritance. Companies don't pay taxes on what they purchase to sell but collect the taxes from the people who buy. However, companies do pay taxes on property they own at audit time. So if a car dealer buys several cars not pre-sold they have to pay taxes on those cars on their lot at audit time. And then we pay taxes on the cars when we buy them.

Many things are taxed several times. I pay taxes on what I earn, with what is left I pay taxe on what I buy, and if there is money left my son pays taxes on his inheritance, both the money and the material things he inherits.

There is no reason for anyone to ever be without healthcare, a place to live, or food. But it does happen. Our Ohio Bureau of Workman's Compensation was robbed by one man of fifty million dollars because he conned political people high up and worked a scam. Another man in a far-a-way state took this same bureau's money to the tune of two hundred and fifteen million dollars. This man used the bureau's money for bad investements and may get off scott free. The BWC collects money from employers so when an employee is injured during a work related activity and then pays the medical bills of that employee while he is off and also pays compensation so the employee to help with food and other necessities.

We are robbed daily by over inflated salaries of our city, county, state, and federal politicians. They get richer while the people get poorer.

We can do something about it but the charamistic and powerful politicians lead the sheep into voting them in election after election. Will we someday catch on and start to put new people in office and limit office holders to no more than two terms? Hopefully someday.

However this is not something that happens only to us. I read news stories from European, Scandinavian, Russian, and Chinese sorces and find their politicians are no different than ours. One of my current favorite stories is the chinese city or state leader that had a bridge built by a blind contractor. The bridge collasped during construction.

I still have faith in Capitalism. I also have faith in our Republic form of government. But the more our country becomes Socialized the more it's citizens pay in taxes and the richer the politicians become. There is more to the story to be sure, but it is one place to begin the clean up process.

I think it's a hell of a non-sequitur to blame socialised healthcare for corrupt politicians. Also, paying taxes, along with death, is a fact of life. Certain services, such as healthcare, are best purchased by the state on behalf of the individual if only because the Government is best placed to drive down costs through its bargaining power. In the US, you instead have a highly fragmented system than is ramshackle, hideously expensive and seems to primarily benefit the provider rather than the consumer.

I hear *nobody* in the UK apart from a few right-wing zealots calling out for a healthcare model based upon the US version. That's because your version is crap, and ours is effective. What's the No 1 cause of personal bankruptcy in the US, I wonder?